About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Sunday, October 3, 2004 - 2:32amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Initially I didn't want to post this article, since I believed that the various threads re homosexuality had run their course for now. (Ironically, the author is one of the two or three folk who, some weeks ago, moaned that the subject was getting too much attention. Another of them has submitted a poll on the very subject he felt was getting too much attention.) But I *did* post it in the end, just so that I could record my disagreement with its core premise, that actually has nothing to do with homosexuality; the same issue I'm about to raise could have arisen re any other subject about which people on SOLOHQ have disagreed.

The issue is this: the equating of objectivity with staying above the fray & not raising one's voice. Mr. Cordero is suggesting that both sides in the homo debate demeaned themselves & the validity of their arguments by getting angry. He further says it was *understandable* that they'd get angry, given x, y & z, but implies that it was regrettable nonetheless, because ... well, just *because*. Folk should *never* get angry, period! If they *do* get angry, that means they've abandoned objectivity.

I couldn't disagree more. I want to make it as plain as I can that I regret neither getting angry nor anything I said while angry; there is not a single thing I said that I regard as "over the top" or that I couldn't defend rationally as being true.

If I achieve nothing more in my life I hope I can dissuade people from this vicious notion that the most important thing in life is never to get angry & always to be civil, no matter *what* one is confronted with. To understand the vileness of that proposition, one only has to ask who, in a contest between right & wrong, stands to gain from it? Chamberlain was polite to Hitler; Hitler was polite to Chamberlain. Does their politeness redeem either of them?

Of course, not all conflicts are so clear-cut, & one shouldn't get angry prematurely, or adopt a policy of chronic, morbid incivility just for the hell of it. But the bad faith of one side in the homosexuality debate *became* clear-cut, much sooner than the point at which *I* became angry, to anyone who cared to follow it closely. To suggest with *this* degree of hindsight that it's a pity that *anyone* got angry, & suggest that only those who stayed above the fray could emerge with any credit, reflects precisely the kind of unprincipled amoralism that is destroying the world. It's the kind of insipid, insidious amoralism that tut-tuts about people getting angry, with no regard for what it is they're getting angry about. It's the disgusting amoralism James Kilbourne writes about in his article, "Don't be cool, BE HOT!"

To which I would add - objectivity *demands* it!

Linz







(Edited by Lindsay Perigo on 10/03, 3:05am)




Sanction: 2, No Sanction: 0
Post 1

Sunday, October 3, 2004 - 1:16pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Linz says: Mr. Cordero is suggesting that both sides in the homo debate demeaned themselves & the validity of their arguments by getting angry.


My reference was to the many ad hominem attacks made as a result of the debate, not to the passion (anger, joy, ect..) that people expressed while debating their positions strongly, but civily.

Linz says: there is not a single thing I said that I regard as "over the top"
 ROFL

Linz says: To understand the vileness of that proposition, one only has to ask who, in a contest between right & wrong, stands to gain from it? Chamberlain was polite to Hitler; Hitler was polite to Chamberlain. Does their politeness redeem either of them?


I love Hitler analogies as well! When delivered articulately, they sometimes act as a good 'argument from intimidation' tool. Bravo!

Linz says: Of course, not all conflicts are so clear-cut, & one shouldn't get angry prematurely, or adopt a policy of chronic, morbid incivility just for the hell of it.


I agree. Thank God the recent debate was one that was so clear cut that it did not require respectful rational discourse.

Linz says: ...there is not a single thing I said that I regard as "over the top"


Linz says: ...reflects precisely the kind of unprincipled amoralism that is destroying the world. It's the kind of insipid, insidious amoralism...


Your right, I apologize for inferring that you ever say anything "over the top". I further apologize for being an insipid amoralist contributiing to the destruction of the world.

Sincerely - Yours truly with Love,

George

(Edited by George W. Cordero on 10/03, 2:13pm)




Post 2

Sunday, October 3, 2004 - 2:10pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Linz,

There's no need for being so formal, drop the "Mr. Cordero"; George will do just fine.

Sincerely,

Mr. Cordero 




Post 3

Monday, October 4, 2004 - 2:36amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
George, Linz, if we start fighting over this issue -- which is peripheral to the issue of homosexuality -- it really will be ridiculous. For heavens sake, let's have a discussion, not a brawl.

George, I understand the point of your article, your "domino" theory, and I think it probably is true of some people, but it isn't a universal and it isn't a inevitable problem. And I give myself as an example. I was brought up with the conventional view of homosexuality, that is, that it was a perversion, "unnatural" (whatever that was supposed to mean), and a certain sign of neurosis. But when, later, I really thought about the issue, I realized I had no evidence for such a view; and so I changed my mind. Nothing about the moral system I held, nothing about my sense of life or world view, fell as a result of my change of mind. And I have seen this in a great many other people.

I also have seen homosexuals, who all their lives felt ashamed of their sexual preferences, come to understand that they need not feel shame, that their sexual choices were as defensible as any other, and shed the unhappiness they had felt before. Nor did their change of mind impinge on other values they held.

Barbara







Post 4

Tuesday, October 5, 2004 - 2:36amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
So Lindsay Perigo does not think objectivising a human being is being "over the top".  Pretty confirms my impression of you Perigo - You're Ellsworth Toohey in drag!!
Cass




Post to this thread
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.