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Post 60

Tuesday, December 7, 2004 - 7:16pmSanction this postReply
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Next: "Thanks for the sideswipe, because literally, I cannot understand your perceptions."

 

Does that mean you enjoy things you don’t understand? Joking aside, I gave you a compliment about your interest in philosophers with widely differing ideas. I have similar reaction of enjoyment to many postmodern artists, such as Duchamp and Whitehead. I am not a philosopher nor am I terribly interested in general philosophy but I am very interesting in perception as an artist.

You said the following:

 

“I do not believe that perception gives us direct contact with physical objects and the simplest reasons are
1) the nature of hallucinations.
2) the subtle differences in perception for different people (or even the same person)  with different perceptual organs (colorblind people) and epistemological perspectives (which of the tables is the true table - the one when you look at it from the top of the room, from the side, the one that exists when the lights are off etc.).”

 

And it seems to me that the above examples are anomalies that you and, I gather, some philosophers use them to discount the nature of perceptions. But that is kind a like defining things by non-essential characteristics.  

 

I have enjoyed teaching art with emphasis on visual perception. A big part of my teaching method is to have the student confirm their drawings space, form, and light off reality. Out of about 500 students I have had one that refused to see that the back left table leg was, from his vantage point, in-between the left and right front legs of the table. He insisted to draw in a medieval style with the perspective of objects expanding as they went back in space. Byzantium holds a long tradition of divorcing representational art from reality preferring to hold a distorted view of people and objects that reflect God’s “glory”.  BTW, I was not teaching a free-form class, if you want to paint only what you want don’t take a class, simple. All the rest of the student’s I have had have been able to see what I was pointing out though not all of them could transfer that knowledge to the page. I can also point out that referencing what you see directly does not translate into detailed realism;  form, light, and space are more essential than or come before realistic details as they are the keys outside of us things/phenomenon that enable us to see. My friends Jan Koenderink and Andrea van Doorn have done a huge body of work on visual perception with an emphasis on form, light, and space, they can scientifically confirm that our visual perceptions have a specific nature.

 

Now this  unseeing student of mine (only for a day!) did in fact see the table leg in-between the others but he refused its significance, he wanted to dismiss it, a factually demonstrated fact of visual reality, as unimportant. Now he is welcome to his opinions and to his art but his ignorance doesn’t change the monumental phenomenon of Western art or change that its discoveries such as one- and two-point perspective are a true identification of reality while his is not.

None of those 500 or so students had visual hallucinations, and I had a couple that were color-blind though not tone-blind, meaning they could draw in black and white.

 

The simple point is that anomalies or exceptions do not discount the fact of visual perception or discount the knowledge gleaned from it. Unless, of course, like my student you want to discount it because you want to.

 

Newberry

(Edited by Newberry on 12/07, 7:19pm)




Post 61

Tuesday, December 7, 2004 - 7:27pmSanction this postReply
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Jeanine,

I just lost a lot of typing (you won't believe how much) in a response to you.  I will have to delay my response to your post to the weekend, but it probably won't be anything close to the length of my initial response.

Cheers.




Post 62

Tuesday, December 7, 2004 - 8:30pmSanction this postReply
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Newberry,

Thanks for the mixed compliment.  I've decided to accept the compliment because the negative side comes from a condescending conviction that you are sure that you are right, and I can be the same way too.  And if you were really being nasty, you wouldn't have gone out of your way to give me an explanation.

My recommendation to you:  When you read my posts, try to treat my posts less as moral positions based on what I like but as best explanations that try to subsume both the rules and the exceptions with more rules, as any determinist tries to do.  I have my agendas, no doubt, but after you consider me a guy who takes more interest the hows and the whys in the causal sense more than in the moral sense, you'll see where I'm coming from better.

Since you are interested in visual art, here is a neuroscientist's search for artistic universals (a bit of speculation but hey, you treat it as you like, and some of it is definitely compatible with a naturalistic explanation for Romanticism):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/lecture3.shtml
And it seems to me that the above examples are anomalies that you and, I gather, some philosophers use them to discount the nature of perceptions. But that is kind a like defining things by non-essential characteristics.
  
Since I've failed to communicate a serious understanding of my positions on many issues on this web board to he great majority of Objectivists, just assume that
1)whether I am right or wrong about the validity of representationalism,
2) that my defence of representationalism is based on my belief that it is the best theory for defending
a) (metaphysical) realism,
b) objective knowledge
c) perceptual errors and
d) the nature of memory.

It is definitely not an attempt to claim that perception is fundamentally unreliable, or that perceptions are not felt as if they are direct and unquestionable.

I didn't write that perception is fundamentally unreliable because people can and do hallucinate.  I wrote that hallucinations are one of the many forms of evidence that make some form of representationalist perception the best theory consistent with realism.  If reality is absolute, and you agree that we can both perceive things differently for a variety of reasons, including hallucinations, can the subject of immediate experience be anything other than mental? 

The alternative is that what we see immediately is real, and that is inconsistent with points 1-4 in ways that you can check by asking how honest disagreement is possible without it.

I am NOT arguing that our experiences are not caused by an objective, external reality.  I do not argue that the mental aspect of immediately perceived objects make sense perceptions invalid. 

Often, I wonder what the Objectivist explanation for honest epistemological disagreement is - it seems like an impossibility to explain using Objectivist epistemology.

A scientist doesn't ignore the non-essentials like a moralist or essentialist.  A scientist tries to explain how the non-essentials fit into his theory.  That is the big difference between essentialism and nominalism when applied as approaches to complex issues.

We cannot ignore retards or autistic people as scientists because they do not fit in easily with rest of us.  We try to subsume them causally into our theories on human nature.

You see, I, as a scientist, would be first and foremost be more interested in understanding why that nutcase  in your class wanted to draw things differently.  I would also be interested in finding out what the pictures drawn by the colorblind people looked like.

Maybe, after that, depending on how stubborn I thought the nutcase was,  I would try to civilize him as best as I could :).




Post 63

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 12:59amSanction this postReply
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Michael,
Aren't you refusing the significance of curved, multi-point perspective by claiming that 1- and 2-point perspectives are "true" identifications of reality? The orb that is the human eye curves all lines to one degree or another and sees everything in a way which should be represented with at least three points, and, at best, six points of perspective (visualize the image produced by a fish-eye lens as an extreme example), which is why objects artificially limited to 1- and 2-point perspective appear to become distorted toward the outer edges of a drawing. Confining what is seen in reality to 1 and 2-point perspective is, in principle, as much a dismissal of factually demonstrated visual reality as is drawing in an isometric or medieval style like your student did.

Your painting, Denouement, for example, is done in 2-point instead of three (or curved six, for that matter), and the objects in the image, most noticeably the paintings on the walls and the chair on the right, "expand" as they go back (down) in space when they should "contract." If drawn in "true" perspective, these objects would narrow at their bases (if measured from the viewer's eye, the distance to their tops would be closer than the distance to their bottoms).

So your gripe seems to be that your "unseeing" student had "visual hallucinations" because he chose to dismiss a different perspective plane than the one that you choose to dismiss.

Best,
J

(Edited by Jonathan on 12/08, 1:44am)




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Post 64

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 7:34amSanction this postReply
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Next wrote:  "If reality is absolute, and you agree that we can both perceive things differently for a variety of reasons, including hallucinations, can the subject of immediate experience be anything other than mental?" 

 

See it is simple, I don't agree that we perceive things differently in an essential way. I am certain that if you and I are looking at surface of the top of a non-transparent table we are not simultaneously seeing the surface of the bottom of the table. That is a true observation. We can move backward or forward from there; like to Jonathan's observations about curved sight, which is also demonsratable.

 

Another example, which I find humorous, is that universally people can negotiate stairs. I mean we are not at a 50% success rate...it must be more like 99.99999999999999999% we have the reality of the stairs and the mental capacity through touch and sight to judge the dimensions of the stairs and match our motor skills to that.

 

I don’t know why you and Jonathan seem to view positive knowledge statements as arrogance. Man its so not that way there is so much to observe, discover, and confirm with reality and, dare I say, integrate.

 

Newberry

 





Post 65

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Michael,

Excellent post and example.

Ethan




Post 66

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 10:09amSanction this postReply
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Jeanine,

On Existentialist Philosophers
Heidegger is considered an existentialist.  I guess that like any philosophical school, even existentialists must have their differences in style, temperament and specific positions on a variety of issues.  I've thought about reading Ortega y Gassett too, partly because I hear that he might have influenced Rand.  But of the existentialists that I have read, Nietzche is OK, but I ultimately dislike his style of writing when it is applied to philosophy.  Kierkgaard, I cannot stand.

On Russell
He is a fine writer, and while there might also have been political reasons for the Nobel committee's selection, one cannot argue with his volume and the skill with which he communicated difficult ideas to the public.  Do a search for quotes from his works if you seriously doubt his wit.

On Fiery Passions In Philosophy
I like philosophy written in a style that doesn't ride roughshod over fine distinctions.  I think a philosopher should be a combination of the best kind of lawyer and the best kind of judge in a court case, dealing fairly with the opposing positions, their distinctions, the necessary arguments and the evidence that supports them.

The kind of philosophy that tends to impose its will on the issue being discussed, as opposed to following the argument where it leads, is not my cup of tea.  It is the philosophy of passion, the kind of philosophy that tries to enforce its sentiments on the world.  It creates enemies before even seeing whether friendship is possible, because it can only see opponents in one dimension.  It can be enlightening, because a genius is a genius, and a passionate genius can say enlightening things..  But ultimately, the flaws of such writing become all too clear when you are on the receiving end of such criticism.  You are ultimately convinced that you are right, and you cannot see anything similar to the position you hold in your opponent's arguments, so you cannot take him seriously because you see that he doesn't understand you.

I do not think that philosophy should be devoid of passion.  I think that good arguments with strong evidence do excite me, and I also think that if the best possible arguments (or something decent at least - don't take the word "best" too literally, but some effort must be made) have being laid out in support of one's position and the opponent's, and the opponent has been found thoroughly wanting, it is moral to pass stern judgment on nonsense.  I also think that ad hominem attacks are justified after the logical arguments have been made out.

I think that the problem with some practitioners of analytic philosophy was the way they conceived their subject matter - the linguistic and positivist schools were bad, but they are mostly dead in modern philosophy.  Today, there are many analytic philosophers who deal with the traditional issues well.  But that is a partially subjective judgment based on my acceptance of science (and I defend it as ultimately objective as well).

On the Examined Life
With your sentiments, I generally concur - the devil is in the details.

I like your use of the term "weird" (perhaps adjusted to: 'wyrd'?); this courtesan and Pagan shall adopt it.
LOL.  The word "combination" is missing.

On Deference to Traditional Philosophy

I think this gives far too much deference to traditional accounts of what positions are compatible with what- I very frequently think that traditional authors made implicit or purely linguistic assumptions when laying out their fundamental insights, which further tradition then codified as "common wisdom" of what positions should be package-dealed. 
I disagree, for the simple reason that traditional accounts of what positions are compatible with other positions are the result of years of CRITICAL debate in philosophy.  If you want to know whether a person is a serious philosopher, amateur or professional, find out if he has read a collection of works from a variety of authors on a single philosophical issue.

The compatibility of positions isn't framed by the proponent of a philosophy; it is framed by critics and centuries of philosophical development.  So if you know the historical objections to your position, then it is a good idea to meet them.  However, it is an academic imperative that you search for them.  If you omit things honestly, you might be forgiven.  But if you parade your position as the truth, the last word, and nothing but the truth, you had better show that you are aware of traditional objections to your position.

Determinism, Indeterminism, Libertarianism, Self-Determinism, Free Will, Soft Determinism, Hard Determinism, Compatibilism, etc.

Your association of my indeterminism as incompatible with learning or misjudging past experiences is a perfect example.  In this case the assumption is where I believe the locus of volition to be.  Actually, like Rand, I hold volition to be very strict singular and narrow, to what Rand called "focus" (I would use 'will' in other contexts).  Unlike Rand, I think this implies that in moral judgement, one can only truly make an "evil" call in cases of evasive focus; the transmission belt of causality from ideas to emotions, ideas to action, etc., is blameless, which leads me to a much less "judgemental" socio-ethical approach... though I am not a total nonjudgementalist (i.e., when I believe I can work back to focus and any evasion), and I'm too easily tempted to judgementalism in the rare cases I share the hegemonic values... mea culpa.
You see, what a debate with Objectivists can mask is my understanding of the issues, my sympathy with the different positions, and the reasons why I am a compatibilist ( a person who thinks that we have free will, rather volition, but that whatever your view of free will or volition is, it must be one that can be reconciled with a scientifically motivated determinism about human nature).  Some conceptions of choice are compatible with determinism, some are not.

The truth is this: most people who defend indeterminism with respect to volition (which is the claim that multiple futures are logically consistent with a unique past) are simply people who cannot make sense of moral judgment "if human beings cannot choose to do something other than what they did".  They think that this is the biggest reason why a person should fight determinism.  Their view of determinism is that it undermines moral responsibility, since the whole basis of their view of moral responsibility is choice.  I think that these arguments are not as strong as their proponents think they are, but they are serious concerns, if only because people *think* they are.  My position on the issues is mostly that which Dennett develops in Freedom Evolves.
 
It seems that most people forget that every other aspect of Objectivism is incompatible with indeterminism.  In fact, on every issue except human volition, Objectivism takes the position of hard determinism.  If you do not smell something fishy here, for now, I will rest on the ad hominem that you have no nose.  "Focus" is defined in away to insulate it from empirical criticism.   However, it is, when push comes to shove, no different from a "voluntary action" which is "an action a person can perform when asked",  according Daniel Wegner.  That we have different repertoires of voluntary actions is not in doubt.  But if you claim that your decision to perform any voluntary action is uncaused, or is caused by you in an irreducible way, I will just smile, because that is all I can do to people speaking about an article of faith.  Specify how your idea would be disproved, and we can talk.

There are many arguments I can make against the Objectivist view that I haven't because I select the kinds of arguments I make against a position based on what I think the source of my opponent's opposition is.  However, I am not in the mood to make them.  A worldview is not going to be seriously challenged in a few posts.  But I will note the tabula rasa view of man at birth as another issue.


Otherwise, I might surprise you that while I am totally against theories that posit "interference" with free will by genes, hormones, irrational passion, etc. (such as sociobiology)... I do believe that "social determinist" theories ofttimes contain much wisdom, if not ultimate metaphysical truth, and I am open to positions of logical or cosmological determinism which somehow integrate with free will.  I honestly wish I could think of a good way those two positions could be reconciled (I'm not impressed with stoicism, Spinoza, Liebniz, Ryle, etc. on this issue... don't know Blandshard), because I have my own reasons to start really wondering, to my own astonishment, whether there is some "clockwork" including human volition in the larger picture after all.  Actually, I believe I come to this conclusion precisely according to the influences (not theory) of the Stoa that led them to similar conclusions.  Enough said.
Life is full of paradox.  I do not know any kind of inquiry that has better resolved the paradoxes inherent in life than science.  But I think that I was where you were once.  What is interesting is that social determinism is compatible with the tabula rasa view of human nature.  I think that is why you can accept it more easily.

The main reason why I gave indeterminism plausibility when I was younger was because I didn't have a good explanation for why, in very similar situations, people made different choices, given the tabula rasa viewpoint.  After genetics and biology revealed that variations in human physiology could explain these different choices to a large degree, I became a determinist.  Because I think that we do have volition, and it is an important part of our make up, I am a compatibilist - I think that free will and determinism can be reconciled.  Anyways, the truth is more important than anything else.

I suppose my position could be termed less "direct realism" than "transcendental realism".  I just made up that term, but I think it agree with the vague concept of "transcendentalism" qua Emerson, which isn't so surprising, as it was reflection on the continental post-Kantian line of philosophy that got me to this position, and I do thinking about it end up agreeing with the transcendentalists (to the degree I understand them) in just about every branch of philosophy.  (Incidentally, my 'Pagan' philosophical conclusions in all but name ocurred prior to any sympathy with Paganism beyond the artistic and unserious speculations).
Well, I am still a scientific empiricist.  In fact, it was the amount of speculation in philosophy that drove me towards scientific empiricism.  It seemed that too many people thought that they could figure out the world in their heads without testing any ideas.  So it is only to the degree that an idea has a means of verification that I take it seriously.  When we decide what that would be, we can then assess the idea and see what effects it would have on the world, whether it is testable etc.


On Mystical Experience

I know the varieties of mystical experience that you speak of and my scientific empiricism leads me to regard them the same way - as things we can analyze reductively.  The main reason I do not militantly fight the interpretations by the mystic having them (that border on or exemplify what Rand might term "irrationality") too strenuously is that people I consider to have considerable intelligence sometimes defend them strongly, and I am not open to the simple rejoinder that they are insane for intellectually satisfactory reasons (practical reasons are another story).  I'm more interested in why the experiences happen.

In some cases, the wiring of the human brain might be the cause.  There is a mental phenomenon that has a person experiencing colors when seeing numbers.  It is being studied in detail by the eminent neuroscientist, Ramachandran.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/reith2003/lecture4.shtml

However, I know how insulting I might sound to people who feel the full force of their mystical experiences and ascribe them to something inexplicable in rational terms.  I will have to leave my nuanced view of that issue for another time, but I do have my prejudices.

On Hallucinations and Dualism
Many people erroneously think that dualism of all kinds, including epistemological and representational dualism, started with religion.  That is partly because of the fact that religion relied on a mind-body dualism to defend spirituality and free will.

Far from it - epistemological and representational dualism both started with external realism.  It was the fact that people could be wrong about their epistemological claims because they were in error, hallucinating, dreaming etc. that led them to consider an objective reality apart from themselves and to some degree independent of their ideas.

Therefore, while many philosophers who have scientific world views fought against epistemological dualism in the 20h century, thinking that they could supplant it with some form of direct realism, they all failed.  There is no way to maintain an objective external reality without epistemological dualism, unless you want to redefine the terminology.

To be fair to these philosophers, their direct realism was partly a response to the idealism that commanded the world in the 19th century, but even that idealism, in its most objective forms, admitted epistemological dualism.  It was the explanation for the external world ("the mind of God") that modern science has called into doubt.  But some scientists still believe that they are studying the mind of God.  However, semantic quibbles are not my forte.  As long as you admit there is an external objective world, call it the mind of God, Nature or reality, as long as you are not trying to claim that you have mystical insight into it, but are ready to subject your claims to rational and empirically motivated criticism, we are all in agreement.

It is paradoxical that "The Primacy of Existence" defies defence by the argument that we are directly in contact with existence.  But paradox is always confused with irrationality only by those who never consider the hard issues.

But my original point was that the separation of you from your ideas on the basis of the claim that you directly perceive external objects cannot be supported if you believe in an objective external reality.  Otherwise, all your errors and hallucinations in judging physical phenomena would be part of the external world.  So would every perspective from which you viewed a desk - they would not be one entity, but many disparate entities.

On Entertainment and Literary Style in Philosophy
I have no doubt that one can be entertained by even pedantic philosophy, but my point is that I would prefer that the author be boring, as long as he treated the philosophical issues with the right reasoning approach, as opposed to his being witting and exciting, and riding over all the empathetic and rational distinctions and arguments that constitute my ideal of good philosophic writing.

I respect reasonableness.  I guess that is, if I am permitted to psychologize, partly because I am more conservative than you are.  I do not try to argue against society as much as I try to understand it.

I am still an elitist of sorts, but that is because I think that reality objectively created certain sorts of people with better endowments for doing one thing than the other.  This is an empirical issue, and should not be construed as some a priori defense of whatever calls itself elitist on this or that point.

Analytic philosophy tries to ally itself with science while keeping tradition alive, and since science has improved material existence the most amongst all major methodologies claiming to find the truth, I guess I am far more willing to you to live with the "dryness" of analytical philosophy IF that is the source and consequence of the dryness.  I'm not sure that the alternative would be much better, given that traditional philosophy was often rationalistic.  In reality, a choice often excludes others, so I think philosophy is doing well supporting science.  Self-help books and ancient texts have filled enough shelves!

Cheers :).





Post 67

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 11:49amSanction this postReply
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Newberry,

See it is simple, I don't agree that we perceive things differently in an essential way. I am certain that if you and I are looking at surface of the top of a non-transparent table we are not simultaneously seeing the surface of the bottom of the table. That is a true observation. We can move backward or forward from there; like to Jonathan's observations about curved sight, which is also demonsratable.
What is "essential" in a context is whatever explains the similarities and the differences in that context.  If two people with the same visual faculties do not see the same thing, what is essential is what explains the differences and the similarities in what they see.  What is essential aids identification, and sometimes helps a search for causes. 

In this case, you know enough physics to present an uncontroversial example.  I wonder who you would saddle with such a ridiculous claim about the reliability of perception.   Who has argued that perception can be wrong because some of us can see behind tables while others can't?  And who would argue that perception can't be wrong because none of us can see behind tables?

Please provide an example of what you mean by perception, or define it, so we can get clear what we are talking about.

Another example, which I find humorous, is that universally people can negotiate stairs. I mean we are not at a 50% success rate...it must be more like 99.99999999999999999% we have the reality of the stairs and the mental capacity through touch and sight to judge the dimensions of the stairs and match our motor skills to that.
A blind man cannot see the stairs, but he can negotiate the stairs (I assume that you agree that blind men are capable of some acts which a visual person would traditionally rely on sight to perform, even if you disagree with the example of stairs).  Since he is not perceiving what you perceive and is not privy to the sensations which you would most reliably use to negotiate the stairs, how is he negotiating the stairs, on your view?

If the blind man told you that no stairs existed because he couldn't see them, what would you do?  And in all this, what is the fundamental premise being appealed to?

When you look at unproblematic situations, you never appreciate the beauty of the ordinary.  It is often by looking at exceptions to the rule that you can appreciate how beautifully complex the rule is.  That is a fundamental tenet of science and systems engineering.

I don’t know why you and Jonathan seem to view positive knowledge statements as arrogance. Man its so not that way there is so much to observe, discover, and confirm with reality and, dare I say, integrate.

 


 

 

Of course not.  Positive knowledge statements are not necessarily arrogant, and I told you that I make them myself. 

 

1) I am confident that representationalism is correct. 

2) I am in agreement with you that visual perception is similar enough in most individuals in most circumstances for us to practically assume without reflection that most of the time, another individual is experiencing the same things that we are experiencing when we claim to visually perceive a object.

 

I'll flesh it out.  If I am in a room with a color blind man who sees red as green, and I tell him to pass me the telephone, I do not care whether he is seeing a telephone that is red or green or white or black.  I can assume that he is seeing exactly what I am seeing, though I might be wrong and science tells me that he shouldn't. Nothing he does if he passes me the telephone will lead me to question my thoughts.

 

However, if he then says, which telephone and I say, the red telephone in the corner, and he sees red objects as green, he might say, "there is no red telephone".  In that case, I will have to be told that he is color blind to realize what is going on, or I might guess etc.

  3) I am in agreement with you that perception is highly reliable (partly because our faculties are exercised in the kinds of environments in which, according to evolutionary theories, they were designed to be reliable).

 

It is your attitude to understanding a person's position that is arrogant.  Nothing you have established explains why our positions are different, yet you confidently argue as if the positions are.  They might be, but you have to get to the heart of the disagreement first, and not assume it before you have established it.  What would I do differently from you based on my theory of perception?









Post 68

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 8:09pmSanction this postReply
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I noticed a flaw in my hypothetical about the telephones.  I can fix it, but I don't have the time right now. I think that the gist of what I am saying gets through anyways.



Post 69

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 8:24pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Next Level,

There are types of people with different motives and methods. Ours clash.

Newberry




Post 70

Wednesday, December 8, 2004 - 8:50pmSanction this postReply
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Newberry,

Fair enough.  For the record, nothing I've written on this page contradicts the most current and advanced views of science.  I like knowing the facts before I choose how to respond to them.

Cheers.




Post 71

Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 1:10amSanction this postReply
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Michael Newberry wrote:

"Hi Next Level,There are types of people with different motives and methods. Ours clash."

Your best post on this thread thus far, *by* far, Sir Michael! It seems, regrettably, that an open Objectivist forum such as this must, by its very openness, condemn itself to hosting the pretentious ejaculations of clever-dick hair-splitters who lack even the basic courage or courtesy to state their names, as well as equally wankerish pretend-adversaries of same who argue in words while claiming that words are too vague to be argued in. Mr Newberry, might I respectfully suggest that you shouldn't dignify your pseudonymous "critic" with a second of your time. Leave him & his pretend-critic to their jack-off competition on the other thread. Might I further suggest to *all* contributors that they treat cowardly anonymites with the ignore they deserve.

Linz






Post 72

Thursday, December 9, 2004 - 10:05amSanction this postReply
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Linz,

Thanks for the kind words.  It's your web board and you can rant if you want to. 

You set the rules and I followed them to the tee. 

I paid my dues under moderation, and while I have not been the perfect exemplar of the reasonable temper, I think that I have conducted myself fairly well.

If anyone required my name when I registered, I would have provided it.  It's kind of odd for an Objectivist to denounce a person who is acting in his rational self-interest.  If you want to, change the policy.  (In fact, if you required my name right now as a prerequisite for posting to the board, and universally enforced it, especially if it was only SOLOHQ execs who viewed the info in the first instance, I would provide it.)

I haven't advocated the mass murder of Moslems, and neither have I denounced homosexuality. 

In every discussion, I've tried as much as possible to provide arguments and references that can be rebutted or followed up on by anyone who has the inclination or the time.

Yes, I'm a verbose writer, and a "clever-dick-hair-splitter", but the intellectual masturbation on this site is pretty poor, and nothing here has turned me on.  Sorry, but no ejaculations here.  Just doing the humdrum "she's lead in bed" routine.

I have my personal reasons for arguing with Objectivists, in addition to the fact that I study Ayn Rand's thought.

Anyways, I'll be sending you an article with my name on it within the next couple of weeks. I sadly expect you to post it in the Dissent Forum, though I would rather it be posted in Daily Article Column or not at all.  But once it becomes your property, you are of course, free to do with it as you please.

Cheers!




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