About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Friday, June 23, 2006 - 12:43pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
As usual, great article, GS. ^Y_Y^

-- Bridget



Post 1

Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 1:51amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Here is a problem:  From "Both people now have goods that satisfy them more than the goods they gave to the other person," it does not follow that "Both people are benefited by the exchange. In that sense, any trade—provided that no party is coerced—is mutually beneficial to all those involved." The reason for the problem is the equivocation between "to be satisfied by" and "to be benefitted from." Many people are satisfied by what does not benefit them--for example, drug abusers, sadomasochists, folks who do not pay attention to what is best for them, etc.  (For more, see Tibor Machan, Capitalism and Individualism, Reframing the Argument for the Free Society [St. Martin's Press, 1990].)



Post 2

Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 4:17pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Trade is a lot more pleasant for the guy selling feathers, than it is for the guy selling anvils.;-)



Post 3

Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 7:15pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
......unless you're out of birds...



Post 4

Monday, June 26, 2006 - 6:07amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
What I was trying to get at with by my quip is the role money plays in facilitating trade.  I hope Stoly is only arguing for free trade not advocating a primitive barter system without currency.



Post 5

Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 10:21amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Ms. Armozel, Dr. Machan, Mr. Davison,

Thank you for your comments.

Dr. Machan,

"The reason for the problem is the equivocation between "to be satisfied by" and "to be benefitted from." Many people are satisfied by what does not benefit them--for example, drug abusers, sadomasochists, folks who do not pay attention to what is best for them, etc."

This is true, and it underscores the necessity of rational ethics to inform people as to what genuinely benefits them. If people make objectively beneficial trades, they will prosper; if people make objectively detrimental trades (like giving away $10,000 to buy a box of matches under today's economic conditions, for example), they will suffer. Either way, trade is a positive learning experience. The objectively good trades are rewarded by reality, and the objectively bad trades are punished -- and people who have a shred of rationality in them prefer to be rewarded rather than punished.

This was my reason for writing: "Some individuals will inevitably make mistakes, and their expectations will mislead them to make trades that—in retrospect—they will recognize were harmful. But this is an asset—not a flaw—in the capitalist system. Individuals’ minds are not static; they learn. An individual who has harbored false expectations and acted on them to his detriment will likely be more careful in the future. As he accumulates knowledge and skills, he will make increasingly better decisions. If he refuses to change and keeps failing, nobody will sacrifice to bail him out. "

I think that statement indirectly addresses the problem you mention. But thank you for pointing it out nonetheless. The article should have been more explicit about this specific issue.

Mr. Davison,

I am indeed arguing for a system of trade in which money plays a significant role. Money itself began as a tradeable commodity on the free market (i.e., a precious metal, in most cases) -- a commodity more saleable than the others. For a concise description of money's origins and value, see "Austrian School Arguments on the Free Market Origin of Money": http://www.geocities.com/rational_argumentator/austrianoriginofmoney.html.

I am
G. Stolyarov II




Post 6

Tuesday, June 27, 2006 - 11:45amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Glad to hear that was your intention.  I know this was 'tossed off', but I've read some of your more formal stuff and am quite impressed. 



Post to this thread
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.