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Monday, July 2, 2007 - 11:06amSanction this postReply
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Excellent article!

This normative/positive, opinion/fact dichotomy is an embarrassment to economics. As a student of the subject, I argued with my professors about it -- even the free-market ones like Professor Williams -- but to no avail. This spurious distinction, now virtually unanimous within the economics profession, derives from David Hume's view that one cannot derive an "ought" from an "is." But, as you correctly point, the view is self-refuting. Is it not a fact that one ought to accept the normative-positive, opinion/fact distinction? Yes, echo a chorus of economists, blithely unaware of the self-contradiction they are committing! Normative statements are a species of factual statements, not an alternative to them. Normative statements are factual statements.

It has been said that philosophers could use a good dose of economics to bring them back to the real world. Well, economists could use a good dose of philosophy for that very same reason.

In disputing the normative/positive dogma, the reply I got is that normative statements cannot be labeled “true” or “false”, because people disagree about them – they disagree about what is good and bad, right and wrong. But people often disagree about positive statements too. Disagreements about what is "factually" correct are rife within the economics profession. Does that mean that positive statements, which purport to describe facts, cannot be labeled “true” or “false”? Of course not. Just as disagreements cannot disqualify positive statements from being factually correct, so they cannot disqualify normative statements from being factually correct. If they could, then the plainest truths could be called into question, simply because some fool disagreed with them.

I put the following question to an economics professor at my university: Suppose, I said, that an ignorant, first-year economics student were to disagree with you about the first law of demand. Would the student’s disagreement, by itself, invalidate the truth of that law? Would it invalidate the proposition that the law ought to be accepted as factually correct? He was unmoved. He had accepted the view that truth is determined by consensus -- that it is a product of collective subjectivism -- instead of being determined by objective reality.

How does one determine whether or not a proposition corresponds to reality? By consulting reality, not by consulting other people's judgments about reality. To take the latter approach implies an infinite regress. One is seeking to answer the question, "What is true?" by reference to "What others think is true." But what is their basis for thinking that something is true? What still others think is true, etc., ad infinitum. In order to determine whether an idea is true, someone must first look at reality instead of simply at other people's judgments about reality. If collective subjectivism were the standard of truth, then no new or unconventional idea could ever be accepted as true, because it isn't already accepted as true.

In short, there is no basis for the normative/factual distinction so commonly upheld in economic theory. And, in fact, that distinction, while endorsed as a theoretical dogma, is commonly disregarded in practice by the recommendations of economists on how businesses and government "ought” to conduct their affairs.

- Bill





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Post 1

Monday, July 2, 2007 - 12:03pmSanction this postReply
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I thought that we were not going to have Tibor R. Machan, Ph.D., to kick around anymore.  Well, here goes the punt.

Let us begin by being intellectually honest enough to at least cite the source.
Wednesday, June 27, 2007
Walter E. Williams:
Don't confuse what is with what should be
By WALTER E. WILLIAMS
http://www.ocregister.com/ocregister/opinion/nationalcolumns/article_1744834.php
 (The syndicated column appeared in other newspapers, as well.)
Then, the reader can see what Dr.* Williams actually said. 

It is true that an objectivist who rejects the analytic-synthetic, reason-emotion, and positive-normative dichotomies would have deep reasons to raise fundamentatl questions about assertions such as this one:
The statement "Scientists shouldn't split the atom" is a normative statement. Why? There are no facts whatsoever to which we can appeal to settle any disagreement. One person's opinion on the matter is just as good as another's.
 He said that in order to make a point.
You say, "Williams, it doesn't sound like economics is a very compassionate science." You're right, but neither is physics, chemistry or biology. However, if we wish to be compassionate with our fellow man, we must learn to engage in dispassionate analysis. In other words, thinking with our hearts, rather than our brains, is a surefire method to hurt those whom we wish to help.
Between those two landmarks is this pitfall:
 Normative statements are excellent tools for tricking others into doing what you want them to do. I simply caution that in the process of tricking others, there's no need to trick oneself into believing that one normative statement is better or more righteous than another.
That is what he said, in his own words.  I will spare you a five paragraph rehash of Ayn Rand's philosophy and leave you to condemn Dr. Williams on your own, as you are fully capable of doing.

------------------------------------------
* Dr. Walter E. Williams holds a B.A. in economics from California State University, Los Angeles, and M.A. and Ph.D. degrees in economics from UCLA. He also holds a Doctor of Humane Letters from Virginia Union University and Grove City College, Doctor of Laws from Washington and Jefferson College and Doctor Honoris Causa en Ciencias Sociales from Universidad Francisco Marroquin, in Guatemala, where he is also Professor Honorario.
http://www.gmu.edu/departments/economics/wew/vita.html




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Monday, July 2, 2007 - 12:56pmSanction this postReply
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Dr. Williams a  disciple of Dr. Ferris??? wow.....



Post 3

Monday, July 2, 2007 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, Bill, Hume held that one cannot deduce an ought from an is. There is a distinction: One can make a derivation without a strict analytic inference based on the definitions of the terms. Science, for examples, does a lot of derivation but very little deduction, which is strictly formal reasoning. (For more on this, see my little book, Ayn Rand [Peter Lang, 2001].)
(Edited by Machan on 7/02, 6:21pm)




Post 4

Monday, July 2, 2007 - 1:33pmSanction this postReply
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Walter Williams gave no references, no quotations, as he presented his views in his short column, and quite understandably so.  (Columns are not scholarly products!) He relied, properly, on the general understanding among reasonably well educated persons (who would include virtually all those who read his columns), between positive and normative statements. I took issue only with his claim that the latter are subjective and that they cannot be proven true. (We had a very fruitful email exchange in the wake of my column.)



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