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Post 0

Friday, December 18 - 3:33pmSanction this postReply
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WHOA!!

Curtis, I'm so sorry. The formatting of this is completely effed up, to say the least.  Can you please correct it so the front page displays correctly?  It appears you've put the whole article in the "summary" section, or something, but it's way way way wrong.  I shouldn't have approved it.

I'm not able to edit submissions made by members other than myself, so a correction made by you would be great. Thanks.

Teresa




Post 1

Friday, December 18 - 4:02pmSanction this postReply
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It's a miracle, but the site allowed me access to fix this, but it isn't fixed. Now I'm getting a FORBIDDEN 404 error.  I tried stripping all of the links, which seemed to be causing the problems. Now this.

Curtis, if you have this written in plain text somewhere, could you please send it to me?  There is something buried in this particular writing that I can't get rid of, and it's causing problems.





Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Friday, December 18 - 4:04pmSanction this postReply
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Post 3

Friday, December 18 - 4:19pmSanction this postReply
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I didn't look right to me either, but as you already know, I didn't put it all in the summary. I was hoping it would work itself out. So tell me, how do I withdraw it?



Post 4

Friday, December 18 - 5:03pmSanction this postReply
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Do you have it saved, or could you save it as a .txt document?  There are lots of embedded things in the text that I could not remove or fix, and I'm really not interested in re-typing it myself. Plus, I don't have the links that you actually meant to include. There are lines and words "crossed out," and tons of link issues.  The first paragraph insists on bullying everything around and staying completely linked, even when I remove the links.

Joe can delete it, or I can resubmit in a calmer format, like .txt. I'm happy to edit a new file and include the links if you provide them, like this:
"..blah blah blah blah....[http://www.blahblah.blah] "




Post 5

Friday, December 18 - 5:28pmSanction this postReply
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The link should say something like this:

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Clark/Temporal_Altruism.shtml

I do not know why it did not work.

I hope Joe or one of his assigned helpers can fix this.



Post 6

Friday, December 18 - 6:05pmSanction this postReply
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I think it's working now.



Post 7

Friday, December 18 - 6:11pmSanction this postReply
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Now perhaps the author can edit the article further to fix the "writes Clark" link.



Post 8

Friday, December 18 - 6:11pmSanction this postReply
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Yeah, that part isn't working the way it should, but I'm sure it'll get handled.
Another article is waiting in the queue, and there are no problems with that one.




Post 9

Friday, December 18 - 6:13pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks!



Post 10

Friday, December 18 - 6:50pmSanction this postReply
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I'm not certain why my first article was so funky in the publishing. All I really did to fix it was re-link the links. Otherwise, I made one clause in one sentence longer. Anyway, sorry for the inconvenience, and maybe next time I'll get it right. At least now I know how to "edit" after the publishing. But I still don't see the link on my profile for adding my pic!



Post 11

Friday, December 18 - 8:37pmSanction this postReply
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I honestly don't know what the deal is with the profile picture option. It's missing on my profile settings as well. You could write to Joe and ask him about it.

No more jacking this thread!




Post 12

Friday, December 18 - 8:40pmSanction this postReply
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I have written articles, but thankfully Tom Baker has not shown up as the author of my articles. Obviously Joe does it manually.



Post 13

Friday, December 18 - 9:06pmSanction this postReply
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How does my being an altruist now benefit my descendants? Consider, for example, how becoming Nazis and Communists benefitted the Germans and the Russians. Prior to WWI Germany had the second largest economy in the world. Russia's Russian population is smaller now than it was before the revolution, and still trending downward. My becoming an altruist now would simply mean that I will have fewer descendants and those less well off than they would have been had I not submitted to dictatorship on their behalf. I am sorry, I don't hate my nephews enough to be an altruist on their behalf.



Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Post 14

Saturday, December 19 - 1:06amSanction this postReply
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How come Clark doesn't just say "que sera, sera"? That would be consistent with his hard or soft determinism. Such folks have no basis for complaint, anymore than someone has any basis for complaining about rain or an earthquake.



Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
Post 15

Saturday, December 19 - 2:38amSanction this postReply
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Ted, I like the way you put that. I saw that part of the issue while I was composing the commentary, but I didn't want to make it too long. Tom Clark wants to give away the baby now so that future generations will have the bathwater. His logic makes no sense. He uses arguments from gibberish, such as this: "There’s nothing wrong with determinism, given that it’s a necessary working assumption for explanatory projects at the macro level of terrestrial affairs (although perhaps not at the sub-atomic level, according to some interpretations of quantum mechanics)." And that was from the same article about temporal altruism!

As for his concern about economic equality, he says, "To the extent that access to education and economic security are increased, so too will concern for the environment." This statement will become true only if any education includes the goofy, unsubstantiated ideas that 1) altruistically cutting our own economic throats will lower the earth's temperature; 2) that the earth's climate problems (if they exist at all) can be solved while China, India and other nations are raising their carbon footprints; and 3) that the mandates by the Obama administration on states, businesses, and individuals to lower their footprints are Constitutional.

But just because the statement comes true doesn't make the science, or the politics, anything less than what Tom Clark calls it: altruism.




Post 16

Saturday, December 19 - 7:57amSanction this postReply
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The premise of temporal altruism is too easily thrown into a blender of competing, contradictory interests from which it could never survive intact. (Just like the circular firing squad now going in Congress over health care.)

If future generations have rights that we must be concerned about, then where do those rights go when hypothetical members of future generations transition to the slightly less hypothetical membership in the group 'the merely conceived?'

Track the existence of 'rights' for every factual instance of a human being:

1] Member of group 'hypothetical future generations:' temporal altruism claims these members have rights that we must/should altruistically consider.

2] Transition to instance of 'the merely conceived.': no right to anything.

3] Newly born infant: the rights begin to be re-inserted. Where did they go for nine months?

In the resulting blender of contradictory assertion of rights, the choicers and the temporal altruists would battle each other.

Unfortunately, the way they would resolve this is to assert that only members of groups have rights, not instances of individuals. A fetus is on its own, like all individuals who are not active union card carrying members of some group.



Post 17

Saturday, December 19 - 11:31amSanction this postReply
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Future generations do not have rights until they, the persons, are in existence... rights pertain to existents, not potentials - and that applies to future potentials as much as present ones...



Post 18

Saturday, December 19 - 11:52amSanction this postReply
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Well, yes, but what follows from that? That if we all irradiate our gonads then there's nothing wrong with nuking the planet?



Post 19

Saturday, December 19 - 4:55pmSanction this postReply
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Future generations do have rights, presumably those we leave to them. We can leave them in any form, but I prefer those in the Constitution. When we extend the national debt, or temporal altruism, or the practice of interpreting the Constitution as a "living document" rather than asking for a national conscensus in the form of Amendments, then we take the rights of our future generations to the things we have, or had, or could have had if past generations had not taken them from us.

I understand the mind-set of the modern militias, who see no way to prevent the theft of their Constitutional rights as they view them through the eyes of Originalism, except by arming themselves to the teeth. Can anyone say Originalism is not the right of everyone who wants to accept it? Can anyone not say it is not the right of progressives/collectivists to override the Original Intent of those who wrote the Constitution, and the hundreds of published arguments before and after its ratification that connote the idea of Amendments rather than activism?




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