RoR: Forum

Post 0

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 11:23am

Link

Edit

I think that SOLO could benefit from the addition of a new moderation scheme. I have an idea that might improve the process of moderation and allow new members to enjoy posting instantly instead of waiting for their post to be moderated. The scheme works in parallel with the Atlas Point scheme, as a module.

Here is how my scheme works in the background:

1. Each member has their own score. This score is updated 1 day after the the member makes a post, and is updated by Equation 1. We can play with the '.1' and the '.9', as long as they add up to 1.

E1 = 0.1*(score of post) + 0.9*(member's old score)

2. Each post has its own tallied up score, which stops being accumulated after 1 day. This score starts at 0. At the bottom left or right of each post, there will be an area that looks like this: {mod: up[ ] down[ ]} A member's click on the up will add one point to the post's score. A member's click on the down will subtract one point from the post's score. The votes will not take effect unless the member presses a "submit" button that is at the bottom of the page.

This is how the moderation points will work for actually moderating posts:

Each post's VIEWING score is calculated with equation 2. The VIEWING score is re-calculated every time a member mods a post up or down, and is stored with the post's text. The Atlas Point adjustment can be calculated by something simular to equation 3 or 4. The 'c' in these equations adjusts the strength of the Atlas Points. I think that taking the logarithm would work great, but ask me why in a different post.

E2 = (posting member's old score) + (post's accumulated score so far) + (Atlas Point adjustment)
E3 = c*LOG(posting member's Atlas Points)
E4 = c*(posting member's Atlas Points)

Each member has a default limit on the VIEWING score required for them to see a post. This can be changed on the member profile page. Also, when viewing a particular page, a user can change the limit. The page will indicate the total number of posts and the number viewed.

To the webmaster: You use MySQL and innodb right?

Post 1

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 1:28pm

Link

Edit

After reading a forum with 186 posts, I began to think... A forum should be more like a tree then an array or linked list. It is not that big of a deal when there are 30 posts or fewer, but if there are over 30, it is pretty hard to read through and make a conversation.

And I would definitely be willing to be paid to implement this functionality into SOLO.

Thanks,
Dean

What I meant by "tree" was if you want to reply to a post, your post goes right under what you are replying to. Currently your reply is tacked onto the end of the list of posts. Check out this slashdot forum if you want to see an example of a forum that uses a "tree".
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 3/11, 10:28pm)

Post 2

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 2:03pm

Link

Edit

I'm not sure about the moderation but I actually like the forum the way it is. We just really need a search function; some way for the admins to make sticky posts (like how to do things in the forum), and a way to insert graphics.
(Edited by Clarence Hardy
on 3/11, 2:05pm)

Post 3

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 7:16pm

Link

Edit

Dean, whatever you're smoking, leave a little for the others who partake. Looks like you're trying to do it all in one night...

Seriously, I don't want to stifle your creativity, but your idea sounds a lot like how they do public bids in Brazil. Guess I stayed in Brazil too long.

I just don't like censorship at all - unless it is something like Linz sending Justin Raimondo on his merry way back to his yes-man minions, to his desperate quest for a new Watergate, and to his pathetic attempt at becoming a legend in his own time at all costs - especially America's. (Even then, Linz censored him for being too hateful - in abundance - to the people here at SOLO, not for being a world-class jerk.)

I speak only for myself, but from what I've seen around here, Rule No. 1 is that ONLY LINZ CENSORS (sometimes with a little help from his friends), not you - and not automatically. He is a hands-on man and his invective and vituperation are a marvel to behold.

I don't know. Your type of head is good for some things, though. Maybe you can come up with a simple way to insert footnotes into posts at SOLO or whatever.

Michael

Post 4

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:04pm

Link

Edit

Michael:
My scheme above does not sensor. If you wanted to see every single post, then you could make your default VIEWING score limit negative infinity.

In fact, my scheme does just the opposite. It reduces the latency between a new member's submittal of a post and its publication. Currently I, a new member, do not really enjoy posting because I know I will have to go through moderation. I think this moderation greatly reduces new member's willingness to be an active part of the SOLO community. Michael, did you like it when you had to go through the moderation queue?

Also, my scheme enables members and users to quickly read more important posts. I value my time, and sometimes I only have the time to quickly read something with tact. Maybe one day if I had time to kill I would lower my VIEWING score limit.

In this scheme we are giving Lindsay Perigo a break from moderating irrationality so that he can work on creating content. I think we will need this more as SOLO grows. The moderators would only need to look at posts which receive very bad ratings, and if they think they need to censor, they can. I would not be one to remove posts, and neither would some automated algorithm.

I think that creating a community by teaching is more effective at bringing positive results than trying to control thoughts by moderation.

Thanks,
Dean

Post 5

Friday, March 11, 2005 - 10:22pm

Link

Edit

Clarence Hardy:
For posting images:
1. Upload your image to a webserver, for example imageshack.us.
2. Post the image url in your post, like this:
<img src=http://www.solohq.com/img/People/dean1bw.jpg>
3. Preview, and you should see the picture:

The reason why its so hard to post images anywhere on the net is because they cost a lot of money to serve to lots of people. Images require 1000s of times more data to be sent than text.
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 3/12, 12:15am)
That little grayscale picture of me is worth 5166 characters. : )
(Edited by Dean Michael Gores
on 3/12, 12:17am)

Post 6

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 6:25am

Link

Edit

I have a couple ideas for Solo. Not really moderation, that's fine here. Have patience. It doesn't take that long to get enough points to get out of being moderated.

My idea is to have change the CD thread to music. Within that put CDs, Classical, and Rock (caterwauling) categories. I recently got an MP3 player and would invite song suggestions in the Kat-erwauling category related to objectivism. Sometimes there is one song that illustrates the philosophy but that is not the tone of the entire album. For example, God by John Lennon, I Won't Back Down by Tom Petty. Thoughts.... suggestions?

Post 7

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 10:04am

Link

Edit

Dean,

I suppose that wasn't very much of a welcome - so let me be one to say welcome. Bring it on. Let's see what you've got.

You wrote:
"Currently I, a new member, do not really enjoy posting because I know I will have to go through moderation."

Smacks of censorship, doesn't it? Nobody with a free spirit likes automatic censorship. Draw your own conclusions - but I suggest you think about this, especially when you start out by make recommendations to do more.

I stand by the way things are right now. It works for me.

By the way, to tell the truth, I did not mind being moderated so much in the beginning (well, maybe a little). It gave me the opportunity to get a feel of the place before I started cranking out my own brand of invective. And believe me. You starting putting out bullshit, you will get trounced, even if it takes over 180 posts to do it. A lot of people know what they are talking about around here and, from what I see, there is zero bullshit tolerance. You can say it, but you will get it right back in your face.

On a lighter note, I like your thing on how to insert graphics. Cool.

Also, did you give any thought to improving footnote insertions? You can send any recommendations directly to Linz...

katdaddy - It's a little old (end of the 80's), but may I suggest You're the Voice by John Farnham? When I get in my anti-war mode (not antiwar.com, puhaleese!!!), this still rings my ding-a-ling and stays (vaguely) alined with an Objectivist feeling (I will elaborate sometime if you don't get it).

(I hate war, but that doesn't mean blind pacifism. Like they say in Brazil, I'll give a head of cattle to not get into a fight, but it takes a whole herd to get me out.)

The other songs on Farnham's Whispering Jack album are run-of-the-mill rock, not very special, so this is one that deserves the MP3 censorship (sorry, couldn't resist). You could also look at the Ben Folds thread. I stepped on some toes over there. I still don't know his sound but I definitiely think his lyrics for the Roark type theme are severely careless and unfinished. Anyway, he might be a candidate for what you want.

Michael

Post 8

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:33am

Link

Edit

Kathy: I agree, I think the CD section should be called music. The "CD" title is both too unspecific and too constraining. I doubt you want to read about my 'Secure Windows for Free' CD there. I also think that there are a look of good forms of music that are not stored on a CD. This could span from talk about a specific artist, to specific songs, to a live event.

Michael:
You said "you start out by make recommendations to do more [automatic censorship]."
I never recommended more censorship. In fact, I never said anything relating to the word "censor" until you did. Maybe I should not have used the phrase "moderation scheme". dictionary.com says "moderation is voidance of extremes of opinion, feeling, or personal conduct". This meaning is not what I expected it to be.

I think I should have titled it "Intellectual Value Rating System". I will go ahead and make that change now.

What do you mean by "footnote insertions"? Do you mean to be able to link references? This can be done with this code [1]. Then you can say something like: Martha Stewart is currently the top increasing query searched on google[1].
Or did you mean ending each of your posts with your own customized signature?

Post 9

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:48am

Link

Edit

I guess you can only edit messages for a short period of time after you post. That is unfortunate for me. I wish many of the instances of the idea "moderate" were replaced with instances of the idea "intellectual value" in Post 0.

Post 10

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 2:01pm

Link

Edit

nooooooooooo, not an intellectual value rating system..... hell, I'll never get out of the doghouse!!!

Post 11

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 4:10pm

Link

Edit

Kathy good point. Different people come to SOLO for different reasons, at different times! Maybe there should be more things to rate. Here are some ideas, some are adapted from slashdot.org.

Positive modifiers:
-Insightful
-Interesting
-Funny
-Informative
-Rational

Neutral modifiers:
-Redundant (simular to previous post or only says "me too!")

Negative modifiers:
-Random (off topic, completely unrelated to parent post)
-Rude
-False Premise

So then each post would be rated by the above. If a forum becomes really big (like more than 30 posts) then the posts with lower ratings would be collapsed so that all you would see is a link to the text. Each member can specify how important each modifier is to them.

For example, I would make it less likely for me to see a Rude or False Premise post to be shown in full text. I would make it more likely to see a post in full text if it had high positive ratings.

If you want to see this in action, try going to slashdot.org.

Post 12

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 4:17pm

Link

Edit

Wahoo! Post #11 was my first post without needing to go through the moderator queue! Sorry, a Random post, but I just wanted to share my excitement! I have an atlas icon! Hurray!

Post 13

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 6:45pm

Link

Edit

woooohoooo, party on.... come celebrate with us in the kitchen. You've earned it. The kids are making martinis and margaritas. Its getting pretty wild in there. Orgy 1894 style.

Post 14

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 9:51pm

Link

Edit

Dean, while I admire the effort you've put into this list of suggestions, it adds a whole new air of collectivism to the forum dynamic. We'd have trolls marking things as rude, inconsequential, etc., ad infinitum.

And trees -- well, they are the most difficult way to find information in any forum. There's no information until you actually click the link.

Let's KISS where we find KASS.

Or, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. ;)

Post 15

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 9:52pm

Link

Edit

Oh, and Kat -- I hope the kids are planning to do the dishes, because I'll have no part of that.

Little heathens must be able to multi-task -- it will round out their education. ;)

Post 16

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:13pm

Link

Edit

Jennifer Iannolo: Did you look at the link I posted in Post #1?

Collectivism- maybe so. Hmmm. I will have to think about it. Well, maybe so.

Here is another idea... If a member likes an article or post, they can add it to their own list, for future reference. They can let others see it on their profile page too...

Article/Post	Author	Notes	Share
Solo Romance: Sentient Sensualist Seeks Same	Jennifer Iannolo
General Forum: The Virtue of Selfishness And Children	Rick Pasotto

Thanks,
Dean

Post 17

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:25pm

Link

Edit

Hi Dean.

Yes, I did look at the link -- it's the lack of a message in the replies that bugs me (whereas here I can see the whole post).

Cute table. I'm glad someone got that joke. :)

Isn't the table much like what we have now, but prettier? We can currently feature our favorite articles and gallery items in our profiles. Not individual posts, certainly, but this isn't my area of expertise, so I'm not sure what all of it entails.

In any case, I have no power here, so I'll leave that to the SOLO Gods. I am but a lowly Goddess cum Devil's Advocate.

Again, I admire your tenacity. :)

Post 18

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:44pm

Link

Edit

Whew! Thanks girls. I think you got across to him.

Dean, there already is a feature on the profile page for listing favorite articles, etc. But your other suggestion for listing favorite posts actually is pretty neat.

About the footnote insertion, I'm not talking about hyperlinks. I'm talking about real footnotes. See below in order to further understand Linz's thinking on the need to solve this problem.

http://solohq.com/Forum/NewsDiscussions/0549_2.shtml#40

BTW - Jenny, that suggestion about katdaddy sending her kids to the kitchen was one of the most inspirational posts I've seen on this board.

And if they don't want to go, you can always slap 'em around a little.

(Hey!!!!... Stop throwing things!!!... Dayamm!!!)

Michael

Post 19

Saturday, March 12, 2005 - 11:50pm

Link

Edit

Remind me to kill Bobby Bidinotto for starting the "Jenny" trend. Grrrr........

Mikey, I have found that kids as young as 3 totally dig cooking, so it is not unreasonable to aim for teaching them the merits of a five-course meal. Prepared by their loving little hands.

Now, if we can get them to perfect decanting the wine, we are good to go. But those champagne corks might pose a problem...

Start breeding, people. We need all hands on deck.

Moderation at SOLO