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Monday, April 16, 2007 - 7:50pmSanction this postReply
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All the media outlets in America are shrieking with the news that earlier today at least 33 people were shockingly, pointlessly massacred at Virginia Tech University. This is truly horrific, but sometimes an act of raw evil and terrible tragedy is just that -- with nothing more to say. There's no moral to the story and no real lessons to be learned. This seems to be an example of that. There simply may be no good way to prevent this type of horror in a largely free America. Altho' it'll very likely help when we learn the likely motives for the mass-murder. Still, in the meanwhile, maybe we can draw a few small conclusions beforehand, and on the side...

Francis Bacon says "knowledge itself is power," and so it may have been a notable blunder and miscalculation not to immediately alert the campus and local area -- via radio and even internet -- that several people were murdered at the first building, and that the gunman was still at large. This news may have made the people at the second building two hours later more prepared and alert, with consequently fewer people killed.

It may also be true that if more people had their Second Amendment rights protected, and thus possessed self-defense weapons -- especially security guards and even informal militias -- somebody could have stopped this killing spree sooner. Possibly people could have called for help via cell-phones -- or even the internet -- to friends who they knew had guns and decent weaponry experience.

It may also be the case that we live in what Bill Maher calls a recently "feminized" world in which private citizens and others are overquick to surrender to the bad guys and their attacks. The police constantly propagandize us not to fight back against criminals (albeit less so in the post-9/11 era). Certainly the passivity of Britain in that recent 15-soldier hostage crisis with Iran has to dishearten most civilized people. Criminals and bad guys today seem pretty emboldened by a general public irresponsibility in fighting back against unexpected evil. Even if some madman does have a gun and is firing on 20 completely unprepared German students, maybe they can all pick up their desks at once and violently charge the guy. He might only get off a few more shots before being pulverized with heavy furniture.

It may also be the case that public roads and grounds played a role in this. These "public" things are really government things, and that means communist things, from which much evil flows. Such property is basically uncontrolled by civilized society, or else is always somewhat chaotically out of control. Big Brother literally "paves the way" for every killer to do his evil deeds. Private college campuses with private security guards and thoughtful private control/access rules seem to be much less vulnerable.

I also think we need to see all this in context. Even if 32 students who barely tasted life died miserably on a bucolic college campus, I think we need to remember that 10,000 Americans perish every day. This comes courtesy of what Homer Simpson calls "Killey McGee on the job." This is the same creature George Bush earlier today called "a loving god." I think human life is truly sacred, and it should not be desecrated with references to the non-existent, and the maliciously conceived and maintained.

Just some passing thoughts...

(Edited by Kyrel Zantonavitch on 4/16, 8:05pm)




Post 1

Monday, April 16, 2007 - 9:45pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, thank God for TiVo, today was a good day for reruns.

I have been asked on occasion to explain such pure evil, and my response has always been that one can't explain evil, because explanation implies a reason, and if there were a good reason, there wouldn't have been the evil in the first place.

Ted



Post 2

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:23amSanction this postReply
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This is one is close to home for me, (about three hours away). VT was one of my final choices for college before I ultimately decided elsewhere. Thankfully, most of my Tech friends have graduated, save for one, and my wife did talk to her yesterday to confirm she was ok. Having only two major colleges in the state (the other being UVA), and VT being known for engineering, and I working at an engineering firm, a large percentage of my coworkers are alumni, and were of course running around distraught yesterday as the news poured in. Given the size of the college, the number killed is not catastrophic, but is still a tragedy nonetheless, and probably one that could have been prevented. The first shooting occurred at 7:15 a.m., with a 911 call placed at 7:19. Classes do not start until 8:00, and probably should have been canceled. I would not be surprised to see several lawsuits arise from this.



Post 3

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 3:41amSanction this postReply
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Young Chinese man with a student visa.  There's something I wouldn't expect.

I wonder how many student's lives would have been saved if a couple of them were carrying pistols in their bookbags?   You just know the gun control nuts are coming out of the woodwork on this one.




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Post 4

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 4:40amSanction this postReply
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Regarding the gun control, this is of interest......


April 16, 2007 Virginia Gun Control On CampusesPosted by Anthony
Gregory at April 16, 2007 01:35 PM
From the Roanoke Times last year:

A bill that would have given college students and employees
the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot
being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on
Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the
subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must
overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah
County, on behalf of the Virginia Citizens Defense League.
Gilbert was unavailable Monday and spokesman Gary Frink
would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to say the
issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear
the bill was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is
appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because
this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel
safe on our campus."


 "Oh, the irony of it all....."




Post 5

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 8:00amSanction this postReply
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Everytime I heard a campus shooting incident, I'd always suspect that it may be another lunatic Chinese student. I am often right and pretty close this time - it is a South Korean student.

When I was still in grad school in the early 90s, there was an incident at U. of Iowa, where a Chinese physics student killed his advisor, the department chairman, and another fellow Chinese student who was my schoolmate. I just found out that there is even a Wikipedia entry of this: Gang Lu Massacre.

There are certainly lessons to be learned from these incidents, mostly among Chinese communities, about our own culture and moral characters, and about mental health of the oversea young students.




Post 6

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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There are certainly lessons to be learned from these incidents, mostly among Chinese communities, about our own culture and moral characters, and about mental health of the oversea young students.


I agree...I think this is a mental health issue.  How can you control someone just losing it?  I do think that it was a serious lapse in judgement, on the part of the university to not warn students.  If the shooting had taken place off campus then I can see not warning students, but on campus there is no real excuse.  The police, university and gun laws will most likely be the ones to satiate the public's appetite for revenge since the killer is dead.  I saw that Austrailia and India are already blaming the American gun-culture, even though the killer wasn't American.

(Edited by Audrey Leigh Diehl on 4/17, 9:33am)




Post 7

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 10:04amSanction this postReply
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Diane Sawyer, Paula Zahn, Geraldo, the tarantula eyelash blonde -- all of the news makers, who are making news when they are supposed to be reporting news -- have been shrieking on about the negligence of the University in not "erring on the side of safety."  They made an assumption about the nature of the incident, and took 'too long' to do what they actually eventually did do, prior to the 2nd shooting.  They 'assumed it was a domestic violence' incident that was over, and even, thought they had a suspect in custody.

In the interim, and maybe up until just recently, it wasn't even totally clear that the two incidents were related; for all anybody knew, it was or was not the same 'shooter.'  So, the panic mongers are claiming that we should have erred 'on the side of safety' and should have proceeded perfectly to the end of the road not taken, which they claim would have resulted in a different outcome.   (Maybe.  Or, the end of that road not taken might have in fact been worse.  The shooter could have chained up a dorm instead of a classroom. We can't see to the end of the road not taken.)

However, all the while that the panic mongers were saying this, and even now, it is not known whether this was an 'isolated incident' at VT, or part of some wider terrorist wave against US college institutions in general.   So, wouldn't 'erring on the side of safety' mean that every University in the U.S. should be 'locked down' at this point in time?  I mean, according to them, we should be 'erring on the side of safety' until we get to the bottom of this incident. 

If we are, in fact, not doing that, then we have 'made an assumption' about the nature of this incident,  prior to knowing the facts of this incident.  We have assumed that it is 'just a local VT incident.'  So, make the call, Geraldo et. al.  Lock down every University in the US, or not?   Be consistant in your panicked call for 'erring on the side of safety.'

Instead, they pose leading questions to students about their non-existent anger towards the VT administraiton, and when contradicted by the students, press on anyway with assertions based on same.  I.E., they manufacture the news.    Students anger is mostly directed at the perp who murdered, not the VT Administration, but this is insufficient for the media's agenda, so they manufacture the news.  It is like watching really shappby Soviet Era street theatre.
 
Gun control?   How many laws were already broken when this left wing radical did what he did?  The real problem was, far too many students obeying the law on that campus, and only 1 -- the perp -- breaking the law.   Had even just the VT 'Corps of Cadets' been permitted to be armed on campus, this clueless left wing radical jackass would not have been permitted to have carte blanche over 30,000 guaranteed to be defenseless human beings.    Pelousy et. al. going to 'ban guns' from the face of the earth?   Sure they are, right along with 'drugs.'  In their dreams, yet, not stopping them, the bodies not even cold yet, and they are dipping their ghoulish fingers into the blood for their irrational agenda.   This incident was a perfect illustration of the results of their agenda: the law abiding are rendered totally helpless, and made so by following laws that guarantee only that the lawless are rendered omnipotent.  

It's been about 24 hrs since over 30 Americans were senselessly murdered by the fringe abuse of firearms, and in that same period of time, over 100 Americans died on our highways, just like every day, because of the not so fringe abuse of objects of mass destruction..   But, that's just physics at work.  Fortunately, this nut was wielding pistols and not a Dodge Pickup Truck driving across campus. If he had, it would have hardly makes Page 8 of the local paper.    Time to err on the side of safety, or time to drag out the tired old political agendas?

From shooter's note: "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans."   
 
Poor abused left wing radical.  A victim of our instructional system.   The lefties instructed him that it was virtuous to throw his little revolution.
 
It's OK, he only targeted rich kids.  Aka, what ir regularly instructed every day at every university in the world, by left wing radicals.
 
regards,
Fred




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Post 8

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 11:14amSanction this postReply
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Well, I've got a news flash for you people:

Apparently the asian gunman was a Muslim devotee, if not a Muslim convert.  He dubbed himself the "ISMAIL AX".

Don't believe me?  Read it here for yourself:

Sources told the Tribune that the words "ISMAIL AX" were also found written in red ink on the inside of one of Cho's arms.

 

The reference may be to the Biblical sacrifice of Abraham, in which God commands the patriarch to sacrifice his own son. Abraham begins to comply, but God intervenes at the last moment to save the boy.

 

In the Jewish and Christian traditions, the son is Isaac, father of the Jewish people; in Islam, it is his older half-brother, Ismail (Ishmael in Hebrew).

Abraham uses a knife in most versions of the story, but some accounts have him wielding an ax.

 

A more obscure reference may be to a passage in the Koran referring to Abraham's destruction of pagan idols; in some accounts, he uses an ax to do so.

I got this info from the Fox News website, in this article:  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,266523,00.html 

 

Gentlemen, start your engines.  Let the spin begin!

 

PS:  I'm more right than you are, Hong.  *S*  I hope you've gotten used to it by now.

(Edited by Jeremy M. LeRay on 4/17, 11:20am)




Post 9

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 11:58amSanction this postReply
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Gun control laws do nothing, are just as effective as drug laws (which is to say not at all effective) and are flagrant violations of the second amendment. It's about time citizens of this nation arm themselves and be permitted to carry handguns with them to stop these lunatics. Not only would that have stopped this maniac from doing all this senseless killing by shooting him dead first, but it would also make criminals think twice before taking on an armed citizenry.

I considered purchasing a handgun for a long time but this clinches it for me.

And why am I not surprised he was a Muslim convert?

Hong wrote:

Everytime I heard a campus shooting incident, I'd always suspect that it may be another lunatic Chinese student. I am often right and pretty close this time - it is a South Korean student.

When I was still in grad school in the early 90s, there was an incident at U. of Iowa, where a Chinese physics student killed his advisor, the department chairman, and another fellow Chinese student who was my schoolmate. I just found out that there is even a Wikipedia entry of this: Gang Lu Massacre.

There are certainly lessons to be learned from these incidents, mostly among Chinese communities, about our own culture and moral characters, and about mental health of the oversea young students.


Hong I don't know much about Chinese communities but was just curious what lead you to think there's something about Chinese culture that needs to be changed with regards to this incident?







Post 10

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 1:46pmSanction this postReply
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Wait until there is proof he was a muslim convert - first thing I thought of, but I want to be sure first.



Post 11

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 5:48pmSanction this postReply
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He was a naturalized American citizen. Moved to Detroit when he was 8.

The Muslim connection would surprise me, but not too much.  I think he was crazy before any attraction to Islam developed.

A couple of his "plays" are posted on AOL.  Bizarre stuff.

http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/





Post 12

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 5:52pmSanction this postReply
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Islam is the new Marxism, the new Radical Chic. I suggest Tom Wolfe's essay "Radical Chic" and the movie "Network" for anyone who feels like observing this muck from a clinical third-person perspective. The death premise, and no real ideological credo is the primary here, and it always has been.

Meanwhile, I will be watching Rita Hayworth on Turner Classic Movies.

Ted



Post 13

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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To paraphrase Rand, evil only exists by the sanction you give it. Today is the proof of that sanction due to the fact that no personnel and no students, besides the gunman, had fire arms to defend themselves or others from such an evil.

-- Brede



Post 14

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, I do need to watch Network again.




Post 15

Tuesday, April 17, 2007 - 7:41pmSanction this postReply
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Hong I don't know much about Chinese communities but was just curious what lead you to think there's something about Chinese culture that needs to be changed with regards to this incident?
Chinese culture seems generally to have a low regard for life. Just look at the history of mass murder in China. China has two of the top four in the 20th century--Mao and Chaing.

Of course, China is also rare in the world that is also an extreme dog-hating culture. A person's attitude toward dogs says a lot about them, either way.

This is largely irrelevant anyway, since he was South Korean.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 4/17, 7:44pm)




Post 16

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 7:11amSanction this postReply
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I was apparently wrong about this case. Since the gunman was a South Korean American, it is completely different from the other foreign student cases. Sorry, no time to write more about this. I believe there should be some analysis of Gang Lu's case that's available on the internet.




Post 17

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 3:49pmSanction this postReply
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I think he was crazy before any attraction to Islam developed.
Oh, I would agree.  But I would also agree that Islam itself is a highly magnetic system of formalized sadism and neurotic -- even psychotic -- egomania, and that that's why he and Islam found each other.  They were kindred. 

(Edited by Jeremy M. LeRay on 4/18, 5:03pm)




Post 18

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 4:01pmSanction this postReply
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Incidentally, none of you should be agreeing with me on anything. 

Because of my cosmetically unpleasant (but incredibly correct) emphasis on Islam as the greatest and most insidiously pervasive movement of contemporary evil and, because of my unapologetically overprotective denunciations of all those who would seek to dismiss my emphasis on the extreme urgency of this matter, certain folks like Lindsay Perigo, Jason Quintana, Claudia, Ross Elliot, and Robert Winefield have dubbed me an "asshole" and "mentally disturbed".  

And so, if you agree with any of the points I've made or the facts as I've presented them, you are also "mentally disturbed" by affiliation with my track of thinking.  And we wouldn't want that, now, would we?  What would the neighbors think? 

Such is the path of all nonconformity... it is forever paved with all manner of stigmas and stigmata, and "crazy" always seems to boil down to the label we slap onto any form of logic we cannot -- or do not wish to -- understand and/or give credit for. 

But all that matters not... at all places and times, what must be said, must be said. 

It would just be nice if somebody, for a change, would put truth before ego and finally give me credit for having been right all along where others were just plain wrong.  Apparently, however, that's been too big an ego pill for some people to swallow. Calling me "crazy" seemed to go down a lot better, though it has had certain unpleasant side effects.

(Edited by Jeremy M. LeRay on 4/18, 4:59pm)




Post 19

Wednesday, April 18, 2007 - 5:08pmSanction this postReply
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They were kindred. 
I thought of that.

  Jeremy, for the record, I don't think you're an asshole or mentally disturbed.




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