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Post 40

Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 8:27pmSanction this postReply
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All those rabid Melville minions out there....scary!



Post 41

Saturday, April 21, 2007 - 8:41pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, there was that line in the movie Heathers: "Ess-ki-mo" where the reverend reads from the murdered Heather's copy of Moby Dick where Christian Slater had underlined the word eskimo. Obvious proof she was suicidal. Great movie.

Ted



Post 42

Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:22amSanction this postReply
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Just to accent the absurdity of it all, recall the recent case of that woman who was cut off, twice, and quite deliberately it seems, apparently forcing her off the road at least once, so she responded, in true mass executioner style, by throwing her cup of ice into the lap of the passenger of the offending vehicle.  For which she, not the person who was assaulting her with a couple tons of lethal steel,  was given a suspended sentence, for which she profusely thanked the court (or else), as she could have received five years in prison.

Welcome to the land of Mightmakesright.  The driver was entitled to force her off the road because he was the bigger thug.  And then the court was entitled to have its ass so grovelingly kissed by her because it was the bigger thug.

When you find yourself living in Mightmakesright, your only recourse is to either conform and adopt thug ways or seek citizenry elsewhere.  This is why the honest man must forever be a globehopper.

(Edited by Jeremy M. LeRay on 4/22, 2:25am)




Post 43

Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:23amSanction this postReply
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Sex was an obsession of many of the 9-11 hijackers. I got the very particular impression that a number of them were probably unhappy or latent homosexuals. The traitorous John Walker Lindh (may he die in jail) was a homosexual adventurer who slept around while studying Jihad. Of course, the press does not brin up this fact where homosexuality applies, due to political correctness and the high number of gays in the media. At least in the west, we do not force people to sublimate their sexual urges into suicide bombings. But the VA Tech killer was a stalker who took pictures up women's skirts. I can't draw any brilliant philosophical conclusions from these observations, but I do wonder (or, well, actually I don't wonder) why the press is so reluctant to brin up these topics.

I had not heard these things before.  I will be considering them over the next few days.  Thanks for the tip-off.




Post 44

Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 4:30amSanction this postReply
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Jeremy : I know, but that's not my point. Ishmael is indeed a relatively minor Biblical character but the name Ishmael also means "God will hear": was Cho trying to suggest that God, and the world, would hear his oppressed cries? Alternatively, in Moby Dick, "Ishmael" is a mysterious figure, an outsider. Cho was certainly both. Are either of these facts relevant? Almost certainly not, but I don't see that they are any less plausible than the theory that Cho was a Muslim. There's no other evidence for this whatsoever, wheras in the Moby Dick example, Cho was at least an English major and had probably read it.

Ted : On the package he sent to NBC, Cho spelt the name as "Ishmael". This can be clearly seen on the photograph of the package. Who knows why he would spell the word differently these two times; possibly one of them was a mistake (on his part, or on the part of the person who read the letters on his arm), or he had reasons of his own which may have stemmed from some knowledge of Islam but this certainly casts doubt on the idea that Ismail (the so-called "Islamic" spelling - but of course, by far the most Islamic way of writing it would be in Arabic) was the "natural" spelling for him.

In general I think we all ought to be sceptical about attempts to explain or understand Cho's actions in terms of religion, culture, social exclusion, loneliness, mental illness, repressed homosexuality, resentment at not being able to do the right major, or any other such factors. The trouble with all of these are that there are tens of thousands of people (in America alone) who are in each of these situations and never harm a soul. Cho's case was, thankfully, exceptional and it will require an exceptional complex of explanations which will probably never be grasped. We naturally tend to think that such a horrific act must have some big underlying cause which made it inevitable but for all we know, Cho might equally likely have woken up in a slightly better mood one morning, or recieved a smile from someone at a crucial moment, and gone the rest of his life without harming anyone, and we'd never have heard of him. Imagine if everyone was trying to explain why you chose to have a donut instead of a danish one morning; it would be, beyond a certain point, futile. It's a platitude, but: people are complicated.
(Edited by Jeremy B
on 4/22, 5:51am)




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Post 45

Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 1:57pmSanction this postReply
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Jeremy B,

I would assume that he spelt it Ishmael on the media package since more people know of that name, and fewer have heard of Ismail. That's exactly my point, that unless one is familiar with the Arabic cognate, almost only known to Westerners who've studied isl*m, it would be bizarre for him to write the Arabic cognate on his self. In linguistics, this would be called an "unmotivated" innovation, and be seen as proof of some sort of outside influence.

My point in brining up the sexuality issue was not to excuse or explain, but rather to show how people who might have better outlets for their sexuality (as we do in the west) are less likely to be recruitable as suicide bombers or the like, as they are in the Mideast. (Ultimately, evil cannot be explained, just attributed to the evil choices of men, choice being an irreducible primary.) Women who have been accused of adultery have been given the option of becoming suicide bombers in Palestine. I would assume the same option is either offered to or chosen by homsexual males and others who see no place for themselves under sharia. Under isl*m these people have no out. In the West, they can become priests or drag queens or Doogie Howser.

I don't see Dooggie Howser shooting of an Uzi in a shopping mall.

And the koran not only offers martyrs 72 virgins, they also get beautiful young boys. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Ted Keer



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Post 46

Sunday, April 22, 2007 - 2:58pmSanction this postReply
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Out of the woodwork:

This could be pure coincidence, or my being sensitized, but over the days since the massacre, I've seen several people wearing ultra-violence oriented T-Shirts.  I would expect to see them in L.A., especially Hollywood, where the street scene has for decades been an expression of a singular confusion of art with extreme bad taste, but in the OC I would only be expecting them in the yuppy areas, not in Santa Ana, which is mostly low/middle income Hispanic.

However, these were all Hispanics, with one guy wearing a Charles Manson T, with various messages as to how "Everyone must die," and "No Forgiveness."

Reminds me of 9/11, when, on the way home, I stopped by a liquor store in one of the more affluent business areas of Santa Ana to purchase a money order for some eBay purchase.  There were more than the usual number of loiterers in front and around the store, all Hispanic men, and, whenever I had stopped by there in the past, they always gave me the typical annoying deferential, eyes downcast attitude that lower-class Hispanics reserve for anglos hereabouts.

That day, the attitude was strikingly different.  They stared at me directly, which itself is taken as aggression in the Hispanic culture, and with a look of both hostility and triumph.




Post 47

Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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My point in brining up the sexuality issue was not to excuse or explain, but rather to show how people who might have better outlets for their sexuality (as we do in the west) are less likely to be recruitable as suicide bombers or the like, as they are in the Mideast. (Ultimately, evil cannot be explained, just attributed to the evil choices of men, choice being an irreducible primary.) Women who have been accused of adultery have been given the option of becoming suicide bombers in Palestine. I would assume the same option is either offered to or chosen by homsexual males and others who see no place for themselves under sharia. Under isl*m these people have no out. In the West, they can become priests or drag queens or Doogie Howser.

I don't see Dooggie Howser shooting of an Uzi in a shopping mall.
I like your point here. 

I think that much of what drives a person to become ultra-destructive is not being allowed to fully actualize their natural natures.  (Has "natural nature" ever been used as a phrase before?)  Sometimes, these sorts of unbearable restrictions are imposed from without -- as is the case with Islam -- or from within -- as is the case with psychologically conditioned repressions and aversions, programmed either from childhood or some other impressionable time of life.

There's a great book that I'm convinced applies to these sorts of situations.  It's by Alexander Lowen, and it's titled Narcissism: Denial of the True Self.  I found it a very good read. 





Post 48

Monday, April 23, 2007 - 1:34pmSanction this postReply
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This could be pure coincidence, or my being sensitized, but over the days since the massacre, I've seen several people wearing ultra-violence oriented T-Shirts.  I would expect to see them in L.A., especially Hollywood, where the street scene has for decades been an expression of a singular confusion of art with extreme bad taste, but in the OC I would only be expecting them in the yuppy areas, not in Santa Ana, which is mostly low/middle income Hispanic.

However, these were all Hispanics, with one guy wearing a Charles Manson T, with various messages as to how "Everyone must die," and "No Forgiveness."

Reminds me of 9/11, when, on the way home, I stopped by a liquor store in one of the more affluent business areas of Santa Ana to purchase a money order for some eBay purchase.  There were more than the usual number of loiterers in front and around the store, all Hispanic men, and, whenever I had stopped by there in the past, they always gave me the typical annoying deferential, eyes downcast attitude that lower-class Hispanics reserve for anglos hereabouts.

That day, the attitude was strikingly different.  They stared at me directly, which itself is taken as aggression in the Hispanic culture, and with a look of both hostility and triumph.
Yes, this is a truly scary truth you've pointed out here:  the underground of murderously rageful resentment and envy that exists all around us, everywhere.  What an ego cauldron we live in.

I would caution you, however, to be aware that as much murderous resentment and covetousness exists at any debuttante's ball or black-tie affair, as in the barrio subcultures of America.  Everybody is ambitious, all are out for glory, everyone is in competition, and few blame themselves for how they victimize others and catalyze all their various hatreds. 





Post 49

Monday, April 23, 2007 - 3:40pmSanction this postReply
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Ted : I would assume that if he were going to choose a time to write it with the more common spelling it would be when he wrote it on his arm - which he knew everyone would read - than when he was filling in some paperwork (writing my name on forms is pretty damn automatic, for me at least). The point is that we're overanalysing what he did because we don't have any idea why he did it. I stand by my assertion that the theory that he was a Muslim terrorist has only the weakest basis.

Phil & Jeremy : "Vanity, all is vanity."



Post 50

Monday, April 23, 2007 - 8:27pmSanction this postReply
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What I have read about Cho indicates that he was taking pictures of women under desks. This could be upskirting, but not necessarily. Either way, it's not typical behavior.

As an article on Counterpunch pointed out, universities desperately try to minimize crime reports. High crime stats make the school look bad. But it is kind of shocking that Cho was not suspended or expelled. After the first two murders, their reaction was pure denial.

If Cho had not been a student and done these things, he most likely would have banned from the campus.

Ultimately, this was a man who was horribly disconnected from the rest of the world. He wanted to make those connections, but had no idea how to. He had a vibe that probably drove women away, and he was considered "low social value."

If he had known about Mystery, Vince Kelvin, Ross Jeffries, or Neil Strauss, he may not have done this.




Post 51

Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 2:18pmSanction this postReply
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Well, whatever the full truth about Cho is, I think it's safe to say that no one is going to ever learn it from the mainstream "news" media.



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Post 52

Tuesday, April 24, 2007 - 9:22pmSanction this postReply
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Princip and Czolgasz

Of course he was not a m*slim terrorist in any strict sense, J.B. He did not explicitly proclaim his faith, as a m*slim would have. But he has appropriated the "assassin chic" of the m*slim killers. Look at his get-up, his videotaped manifesto, his tiny genitalia.

He was a suicide par excellence, the pure death wish. Isl*m attracts this type as no other ideology. It offers not only a justification for death and the fun of committing murder for a cause, as did the anarchism of Princip and Czolgasz, it also promises sex. This abomination simply killed himself more quickly than your average suicide bomber.

And again, his use of Ismail is a very strong piece of evidence. When you find out that the main part of the vocabulary of English regarding cuisine and the justice system comes not only from French, but from the non-Parisien dialect of Normandy, you can guess that at some point Normans from across the Channel ruled England for some period. When someone uses a spelling "Ismail" unknown to 99% of the population and refers to an "ax" at the same time, there is, as Ed would say, a certainty of an isl*mic influence. It's like the bloody Bruno Magli shoes. Whatever other evidence might be doubted, some evidence is conclusive.

Ted Keer

(Let me also say that his actions are no proof in themselves of the evil of isl*m - there is more than enough evidence for that elsewhere.)

(Edited by Ted Keer
on 4/25, 7:00pm)




Post 53

Wednesday, April 25, 2007 - 6:03pmSanction this postReply
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This all gives me a GREAT idea for a short story:

The layout is that these (mostly) old guys with terminal illnesses get invites to these dreamland resorts, like paradise on Earth.  As they're wined and dined and whatever else they're up for and given sufficient drugs - uppers, heroine, etc. - in their gourmet meals, the suggestion is dropped that they could stay a bit longer if they really wanted to...

If only they would commit to doing a "little job" for their hosts, then they could get a month or two of paradise in advance, just as a token of appreciation. 

Of course, behind the scenes, these guys have been checked out beforehand to see if they might be willing to do something terminal in return for a really good time up front.  As in, they get a prior invite to a supper at a classy restaurant as winners of a radio show lottery, where they are slipped GHB, or roofies, or simply scopalomine, any of which, at the right dosage, will put one in a hypnotic, will-less state with no memory of whatever transpired afterwards.  Under the "truth serum" they're questioned by a professional psychologist about their beliefs and personal psychology.  And they never have a clue that this pre-screening ever happened.

So, by the time they win the Grand Radio Lottery, the mob, Al Qiuda, or whoever is already pretty well assured that they'll play along.  And so, they sent out to assassinate some person they already despise and think ought to be dead, because they don't have long to live anyway and at least they had a month of pleasure to go out on...  And the mob has promised a nice trust fund for their grandkids, if that's needed as an additional inducement.

Note that every component of this little fable is real.  Al Quida is certainly real.  There are plenty of old guys dying in misery of cancer or whatever with no money for a last fling.  Scopalomine has been used in epidemic proportions for the past couple decades by S. American gangs, where they snatch some businessman and he wakes up three days later in a cab, and his stocks are sold, his safe is cleaned out, his bank account is empty. 

And, the word "assassin" itself comes from the Arabic "hashishan" which referred to these young guys who would be suckered into smoking large amounts of hashish and then taken to a secret palace made up to look like the current Muslim version of paradise, where the prophet (or a close enough proxy) would tell them that only if they completed some deadly mission could they return to paradise.




Post 54

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 1:46pmSanction this postReply
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Thomas Szasz had a good take on Cho. Go here:

http://www.fee.org/in_brief/default.asp?id=1257

Dangerousness Is Not a Disease

April 24, 2007
by Thomas Szasz

Thomas Szasz, M.D., is professor of psychiatry emeritus at the Upstate Medical University, State University of New York, Syracuse, and author of the forthcoming Coercion as Cure: A Critical History of Psychiatry (Transaction).
 
Mourning the massacre at Virginia Tech, President Bush solemnly declared: "What we do know is that this was a deeply troubled young man....  Our society continues to wrestle with the question of how to handle individuals whose mental health problems can make them a danger to themselves and to others."

"Troubled," "mental health problem," "dangerous to himself and others" --  these are the cliches people use to characterize Cho Seung-Hui. They are the cliches we cling to, like drowning men to a life raft, whenever we confront murder and suicide close to home. Let us try to separate fact from fiction, undisputed observation from interpretation masquerading as explanation.

Cho did not talk. When spoken to, he did not answer. When asked to write his name in class, he wrote a question mark. Nevertheless, he was in college, where the coin of realm is the spoken word. We know that at least one of his professors did not tolerate Cho's behavior and kicked him out of her class and that another was so intimidated by him that she "worked out a code with her assistant: if she mentioned the name of a dead professor, her assistant would know it was time to call security."

We also know that, in 2005, Cho's behavior brought him to the attention of the campus police and mental-health system, that a counselor recommended "involuntary commitment" and a judge declared him to be "dangerous to himself and others" and sent him to a psychiatric hospital "for an evaluation." A psychiatrist at the hospital diagnosed Cho as mentally ill, but "not an imminent danger." The judge declined to commit him and instead ordered outpatient treatment. After these conventionally proper psychiatric interventions, Cho decided to commit mass murder and suicide.

These are facts. A person of common sense might conclude that Cho should have been asked to leave the campus or expelled long before his senior year. Why wasn't he? Because in America today it is conventional wisdom that it is the responsibility of universities to provide mental-health services for its mentally ill students. Universities are very old institutions. Prior to World War II it would not have occurred to anyone that treating mental illness was the business of institutions of higher education. Now no one dares to question that duty. As a result, faculty and students saw Cho's patently abnormal behavior through the socially required fictions of psychiatry.

Faced with disturbing (not disturbed) behavior, we prefer false explanations couched in the language of pseudoscience to simple truths. We turn to psychiatry, the magic science that explains good behavior by attributing it to choice and bad behavior by attributing it to the physical cause we call "mental illness."

Cho prepared for mass murder like other students prepare for final examination. He decided to kill and be killed; he intended to kill others and himself; and he did so. He and he alone is responsible for what he did, though others may, and I believe have, contributed to his reasons for carrying out his sensational deed. 

Foremost among the factors that may have contributed to Cho's final act is our psychiatric-legal system that commingles two radically different acts, suicide and murder. Killing oneself is a basic civil right. Killing others is a basic criminal offense. Combining and conflating these two very different acts, psychiatry and law define "dangerousness" as a (literal) disease and expect psychiatrists to diagnose and treat it. As the chain of events at Virginia Tech illustrates, there are worse things than suicide, such as mass murder plus suicide. Perhaps we should rethink "suicide prevention programs." Dangerousness is not a disease.

 
Inherently Stigmatizing
 

We act as if psychiatric interventions imposed on young persons could only help them. But is that true? No! Such interventions are inherently stigmatizing. Being formally classified as mentally ill and forced to be "on psychiatric drugs" are stigmas. We call the subjects "patients" and the psychiatric interventions "help." They call themselves "victims" and regard the experience as condescending and demeaning. They are right. Psychiatrists are agents of the state's security system pretending to be physicians and "therapists." Honest sanctions are preferable to coercions called "care." 

To be sure, dangerousness is a problem, but it is not a medical problem. It is a human problem -- a moral, legal, economic, social, and political problem -- a problem for everyone in the dangerous person's social ambit.

Still, many psychiatric experts claim that psychiatric drugs can effectively control dangerousness and prevent homicide and suicide. Many other psychiatric experts even more confidently claim that the drugs psychiatrists use to prevent mayhem "cause" suicide and murder. The Swiftian result is that colleges and counselors are held responsible for tort damages no matter which psychiatric course they take. If they preventively incarcerate the "disturbed" student, they are liable for damages for false imprisonment.  If they do not incarcerate him and he kills himself or others, they are liable for "failure to prevent harm."  
Could the very basis of psychiatry -- that "mental illness" is a medical problem and that coercion is a cure -- be flat-out wrong? Or are those premises and the institutions that rest on them so necessary for our society that we cannot entertain that possibility?




Post 55

Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 8:07pmSanction this postReply
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GREAT article.  There's more that could be said, of course, about how we poor nothings, being merely the result of colliding atoms, are in no position to talk about the myth of responsibility.  Of course, ceteris paribus applies, but then, who am I to invoke logic, when we all "know" (somehow), or at least "think" we "know" that we can never actually know anything anyway.

But, since it doesn't matter anyway what I say or think I say or write or think, then I prefer to pretend that logic works and I can actually know things.  Let's just say it makes me "feel" good to think that way.  And in that vien, the question is: "How is it, BTW, that these "authorities" know anything.  What magic rabbit did they just pull out of a box to violate their own declarations?

I suggest that there is no rabbit.  There are only charlatans who are laughing up their collective sleeve as they fleece the philosophically unschooled masses that have been coached and prepared via decades of systematic state indoctrination, starting in kindergarten.

"Raise your hand to ask for permission to go to the bathroom."  MEANS...

You don't own your body.  You come to us to request permission to do something that undone for just a little too long may actually kill you, either through kidney failure or a ruptured bladder or impacted colon.
 
And then, many times a day, the program is reinforced, as by traffic lights, designed to slow down traffic, or speed limits set up deliberately to encourage people to violate them, or the "elite" unit of L.A. police beating up children, journalists and cameramen, apparently not even caring that their every blow and shot was being immortalized on video.  Here, in the U.S., not in Cambodia or Bahgdad or Darfur.

We are being taught to accept brutalization as a way of life.  After all, we are only brutes anyway, right?
 
 




Post 56

Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 5:48pmSanction this postReply
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Suicide is a Capital Crime

Doctor Szasz is a well known and well respected voice for reason among libertarians and those interested in the medical arts. I very much appreciate this article However, I do take exception to the following, emphasis added:

"Foremost among the factors that may have contributed to Cho's final act is our psychiatric-legal system that commingles two radically different acts, suicide and murder. Killing oneself is a basic civil right. Killing others is a basic criminal offense. Combining and conflating these two very different acts, psychiatry and law define "dangerousness" as a (literal) disease and expect psychiatrists to diagnose and treat it."

There is no so-called right to suicide. Rights are those circumstances within a political context which are necessary to living according to man's nature. In order to commit suicide, one must be free from coerced feeding and restraint. But except for someone who is a threat to others, or who is serving a criminal sentence, the right not to be constrained or force-fed already exists. What is the implication of denying a right to suicide per se? Well, if one succeeds, what retribution does one have to fear from the government? The suicide is manifestly a danger to society. Suicides may poison or blow themselves up along with innocents if they use natural gas or carbon monoxide. My father dated a girl who, when travelling in Paris, was killed when landed upon by a woman who jumped from a window.

The suicide, if successful, is beyond the law. The suicide, if not successful, is a proven menace. Pretending that there is a right to suicide is absurd. Better to declare that attempted suicide is a capital crime, and to execute at public expense those who attempt self-destruction and fail.

Ted Keer



Post 57

Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 6:00pmSanction this postReply
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Are you serious, Ted?



Post 58

Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 6:36pmSanction this postReply
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Yes, Teresa, absolutely.

(1) Rights are what is necessary to life
(2) Hence a right to suicide is absurd.
(3) Since failed suicides are dangerous
(4) Death is the appropriate penalty for attempted suicide.

Surely, this is no less than providing protection to society, and fulfilling the wishes of the self-destructive. Of course, a trial would be necessary and a defense would be possible. Bur recourse to the courts will occur even if suicide is medicalized rather than criminalized. I see absolutely no problem with this. Rather, it is poetic justice. And again, how will my solution prevent anyone from killing himself? Think about it dispassionately and from outside the box of convention, and the logic is quite obvious.

Ted



Post 59

Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 9:29pmSanction this postReply
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I think he is serious. But I find it troubling.

What if my doctor tells me that I have ALS or some other terminal disease? Perhaps I decide I want to end my life painlessly. Is that a problem?




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