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Post 20

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:15pmSanction this postReply
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How did this picture get posted at the top, obscuring the original post??

- Bill



Post 21

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 4:28pmSanction this postReply
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Whoa!  I have nooooo idea.  That is very very weird...



Post 22

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 7:39pmSanction this postReply
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Cute fetus jpg, Teresa!

Ted



Post 23

Monday, May 28, 2007 - 7:51pmSanction this postReply
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LOL!

Remember that old TV show, Third Rock From the Sun? 

"Well, you don't have to be such a FETUS about it!"

You crack me up, Ted.

I wish I knew how to get that stupid picture down from there.  I dunno what happened.





Post 24

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 7:59amSanction this postReply
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That is why I have car insurance - to pay for things like that if they happen.  Otherwise, I assume the law may require some damages I would have to pay if I were indeed at fault.  Hence - liability insurance!

That said, I am not a proponent of unrestricted abortion.  I do believe that one makes a choice when one becomes a parent - woman or man - by making the choice we all know can lead to pregnancy. 

On another note, there is also no way to know for certain what someone's fate will be - I see these fake setups often, where "but you know that..." and the reality is you do not know for certain.  This matters not in the real world very often, where you can weigh your certaintly reasonably, but always in these "save the baby or save the 3 adults on the train tracks" nonsense - where suddenly you somehow have a brief period of omnipotence and omniscience - only you can save... and you know... but neither is ever true in reality. 




Post 25

Tuesday, May 29, 2007 - 12:54pmSanction this postReply
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Kurt, I concur that those sort of hypotheticals are about as helpful as a rubber crutch.

Ted




Post 26

Wednesday, May 30, 2007 - 3:49pmSanction this postReply
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I've been trying to find the time to check this, so bear with the delays.  Thanks for the response Luke, I like your style.  I wasn't really contending that someone who did not cause the accident should ever be responsible, so I agree.  I'm honestly very curious, so I'm a little disappointed that only a few of my questions were answered from my second post.

I might as well drop the accident/coma thing.  It's mysteriously concealed anyhow, but the main point is with regard to potential.  What I'm curious about now is what William is saying.  Your post begs many questions, and I hope you don't mind if I ask them.

I realize that you're more comfortable with the standard of birth, but for reasons already discussed, I do not think that birth changes anything philosophically/morally.  While I'm at it, why not define humans in the simplest manner - DNA?  Humans have human DNA.  No arbitrary boundaries, no reliance on convenience.

You make the assumption that we are rational and have rights insofar as we are rational, as I understand it.  I'll challenge that as well, but not now.  This makes it difficult to tell when any being has rights - ie when it becomes a human.  You must admit that a baby is no more rational ten seconds after birth than it was a few minutes earlier, and that certain animals have greater mental ability than newborns. 

If newborns have no rights, why would it be wrong?  Why do we define what makes us human, or what gives us rights?  Is it not to answer the very question of morality? (we define what is human, so as to punish/protect accordingly).  Obviously my question was emotionally charged.  The purpose of the question is not to make you look like a monster, but to point out what appears a contradiction to me.  Do I correctly understand you when you say that killing babies is not right, but that killing (one's own) children, for any reason, should be a legal right? 

I'm especially concerned with you saying that  "anyone who killed a baby could not be arrested for violating its rights."  Does this mean that the laws should not take rightness/wrongness into account, or do you mean that they should be arrested on other grounds, but not with regard to rights?  Assume that we're talking about one's own child.

By the way, if you were to ask me which side of the debate I was on, I would tell you that I'm utterly undecided.  I can't accept one opinion without testing it, now can I?




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