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Post 0

Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 10:06pmSanction this postReply
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In the not-exactly-a-shock and why-did-he-wait-so-long department, Lindsay Perigo has banned someone else from Solo who has repeatedly gotten under his skin: Me.

Actually, it wouldn't be so bad if he weren't constantly posting about how anyone can say anything on Solo, no censorship, come here and criticize us on our site. We welcome dissent, both sides, etc. People who wont’ criticize him to his face are cowards, etc.

And then banning me because I was "pooping on Solo's parade" a lot. (And frequently in disagreement with his views which I was less than shy about stating.)

A cute bit of sophistry which most of the regulars on his site are seemingly too inattentive to grasp:

1. He says it's bad form to come into someone's home and constantly criticize the "host". But there is a difference between a private residence or a social outing and a website devoted to free discussion and debate. Where that is actually what you are *supposed* to do in the name of having both sides presented and a full and fair discussion.

2. And there is a difference between "raining on a parade" -- a concept which applies to happy events, good news, etc. -- and making strong criticisms of something that in someone's view is going in a wrong direction and it would be harmful to remain silent about.

Linz so often uses loaded emotionalist rhetoric of a boozy, sophomoric kind -- not as a supplement to careful, precise language or argument but as a substitute for it -- that it's almost embarrassing to have to puncture it.

The principle here is that if you say you are going to commit to certain principles, to have a policy for a website or a discussion group or for an Objectivist movement, you have to actually practice it what you say you are doing.

No matter how angry you are.




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Post 1

Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:00pmSanction this postReply
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I'm not particularly interested in that sort of gossip. Well, look on the bright side.



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Post 2

Monday, August 20, 2007 - 5:52amSanction this postReply
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Linz of course has the right to run SOLOP any way he likes.  As I have stated there, I have a strong preference to see dissenting posts such as Bill Tingley's "The God Who Isn't" post confined to the Dissent Forum.  That Linz chooses to ignore that suggestion works to the detriment of SOLOP in my opinion.  I fully support the RoR policy of not giving the enemies of Objectivism and other dishonest evaders a free reign but still allowing them to spar in a small corner of the site.  I consider this not "gregarious activism and witch hunting" but wise resource management.



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Post 3

Monday, August 20, 2007 - 6:47amSanction this postReply
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Phil, I've been getting the impression that SOLO is for Linz and his very, very close friends.  The kinds of arguments that have been occurring there always have me wondering, "is there something more going on behind the scenes that I'm not privy to?  It can't be 'about' whatever it is they're discussing, there's more to it, something personal is going on."  I don't feel comfortable there, because it seems you have to be part of the clique.

I agree with what you said about Linz, and will add that I am fed up with his anti-female 'humor'.  I admit that there are stereotypically 'feminine' traits that deserve to be made fun of, but with Linz, whenever he wants to put a man down, he ascribes some feminine characteristic to him (like calling Phil Phyllis).  This is sophomoric and insulting.  I don't think it's a gay thing, either; I've known gay men that were very respectful toward women and would never engage in that kind of humor.

There really doesn't seem to be that much interesting content there lately.  Actually, things seem a little slow on RoR too, at the moment.  Phil, why not write an article?  Let's get some interesting discussions going.  Forget about SOLO; it's a clique.




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Post 4

Monday, August 20, 2007 - 9:01amSanction this postReply
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Phil will not publish a formal RoR article but will cheerfully make posts the lengths of articles.  He will also joyfully criticize those who do the work of publishing formal RoR articles while he contributes none for open criticism himself.  As for the "school marm" swipes, I have some sympathy for that viewpoint because of the female gender of my nattering grade school teachers.  While the male ones bellowed like bulls, the female ones just pecked and clucked like hens.  Whereas the former put the fear of God Almighty into me, the latter just irritated the living daylights out of me.  Hence I can understand the source of the snide "Phyllis" remarks as the posts Linz criticizes as having the quality of a "finger waggling school marm" in fact have that quality.

I agree with Laure that the "invisible" portions of SOLOP make some of the behavior in that forum indecipherable.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 8/20, 9:27am)




Post 5

Monday, August 20, 2007 - 4:06pmSanction this postReply
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I agree with Laure that the "invisible" portions of SOLOP make some of the behavior in that forum indecipherable.
I agree as well.  Everything appears to have an "inside joke" attached somewhere. 

I love how everything is out in the open here.  





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Post 6

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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> Linz of course has the right to run SOLOP any way he likes.

He certainly can, Luke. My point was not about rights but about hypocrisy. When he proudly claims to welcome free and open debate and criticism then bans anyone whose criticism is too persistent or whose points he doesn't wish to engage seriously -- but who nonetheless follows the rules of Solo -- then he seems to be -deliberately- misstating (because it's hard to see how he could miss the blatant contradiction).

If someone says, it's my site and I'll just boot anyone I don't like or disagree strongly with, then I'd have more respect for his integrity.

Right up to the day before he banned me he said this on the very same thread:

"[Phil] you are free to criticise, as you well know, since you take full advantage of it....if [people] have some problem with SOLO and/or me and don't raise it here when they're at perfect liberty to then, yes, they're gutless."

.....

Diana H, -- though virulently irrational in many ways and more of a danger** to Objectivism because more otherwise-thoughtful people are hoodwinked -- is a more straightforward witch-burner-in-the-name-of-ideas: She seems to almost instantly boot anyone who arouses her anger or who she strongly disagrees with on all kinds of issues, many of them issues relating to personalities (Peikoff, Speicher) and applications (war, military strategy).

She doesn't pretend that she runs a home for all different kinds of viewpoints and or that she just LOVES free-wheeling "Kassy" debate, the way Lindsay P claims to do. Basically, anything that pushes her buttons or Linz's is something that will get someone bounced. There's no maturity or objectivity to it in either case.

The wider principle here -- and the reason this is worth posting about -- is objectivity and why it is hard. People have feelings and intense emotional reactions and they tend to react based on them not on a calm, deliberate weighing of the actual facts.

This applies to how people run websites, choose enemies (and friends). And apply Objectivism. Here I'm not talking about two websites or people, but making a wider point:

Scratch an advocate of objectivity and careful, scrupulous reasoning and fairness and bending over backwards to seek out and give all the evidence a hearing and -- far too often -- you will find a grudgeholder or a cultist, a shameless whim-worshipper or an emotionalist who does it simply because it feels good or it's easy.

**the intrinsicist fanatic burrowing within a movement is more dangerous than the subjectivist buffoon



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Post 7

Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 10:43amSanction this postReply
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Scratch an advocate of objectivity and careful, scrupulous reasoning and fairness and bending over backwards to seek out and give all the evidence a hearing and -- far too often -- you will find a grudgeholder or a cultist, a shameless whim-worshipper or an emotionalist who does it simply because it feels good or it's easy.

How true.......




Post 8

Saturday, September 1, 2007 - 8:37amSanction this postReply
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Phil:

     It must've been a yr ago I e-m'd you about acting like Don Quioxte in that forum (after I got 'moderated' for challenging LP's gripe about my 'squiggles', such following my losing my temp with his then recently-favored  praised-as-KASS-type supporter.)

     Granted, you gave a good reason for continuing on, but...even Rand said something akin to not standing in front of a juggernaut; you were fighting a collectivistically-sycophantic "Hear no...disagreement" wolf-pack with irrelevencies like pointed questions (which were chronically  ignored) and rational arguments.

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 9/01, 8:44am)




Post 9

Saturday, September 1, 2007 - 8:38amSanction this postReply
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Phil:

     I'm surprised it took this long for you to become 'hypocritized' (by one, to be sure, who has a 'right' to be a 'challenge'-type hypocrite.)

     As Dean says: "Look on the bright side." --- No more time wasting to be tempted towards.

     As Luke implies: Try an article here.

LLAP
J:D

(Edited by John Dailey on 9/01, 8:41am)




Post 10

Monday, September 3, 2007 - 6:30amSanction this postReply
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I'd say: shrug. Leave 'em alone. Let them have their own self-destructive world. When all opposing noise is gone they will get bored and start attacking each other.

As to when they come here: If anyone is dishonest in his reasoning, in the end he will declare himself the "winner" of the debates and leave, imagining himself the champion over yet another group of blind people. None so blind as those who refuse to see. :o)
(Edited by Jan van Kollenburg on 9/03, 6:30am)

(Edited by Jan van Kollenburg on 9/03, 6:31am)




Post 11

Monday, September 3, 2007 - 6:20pmSanction this postReply
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Squeaky barrels run shallow.



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Post 12

Tuesday, September 4, 2007 - 11:12amSanction this postReply
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Am I the only one who thinks SOLOPassion sounds like a fancy name for jerking off?



Post 13

Thursday, September 6, 2007 - 5:33pmSanction this postReply
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     LOL!

     Still, let's not get another Hatfields-McCoys thingee going again, each 'supporter' of one group spending so much time and focusing on denigrating the worth of the other(s); it's not worth it, (except for stand-out Red Barons.)

LLAP
J:D




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