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Post 80

Sunday, February 17 - 5:14pmSanction this postReply
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I notice you choose to remain silent about 911.


Dissent section please. There already is a forum thread for you 9/11 conspiracy theorists here:

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/Dissent/0146.shtml



Post 81

Sunday, February 17 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
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Mark -- I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about what is "unnecessarily engaged ... in total war".  I gave you an analogy to what I think would be a comparable situation in ordinary life, in which nobody I personally know would be thinking it was a good idea to try to negotiate.  Perhaps you think this is a flawed analogy, and would like to offer a better one.  Perhaps you would care to answer your own question and explain what, exactly, you would consider a measured response to Pearl Harbor when that attack was conducted by a country run by nihilistic military folks who would later use kamikaze bombers and force their soldiers to fight on in hopeless situations, without surrender, until every single one of them was dead or had committed suicide?

I did respond to your 9/11 query as follows -- perhaps you could give a response, and I will weigh whether a response is indicated:

"Not familiar with the narrative being pushed by the 9/11 truthers ... what is the one-paragraph narrative of what you think went down?"


Re: this: "What ethical purpose would such warfare serve? To make you feel like a hero on this site?"

The purpose of such warfare would be to prevent awful, evil foreign leaders, who intend to take over your country and treat you like a subhuman or even kill you, from accomplishing their purpose.

My purpose in posting what I did was to respond to you by stating my beliefs, and allowing others to attempt to correct me if you or they felt my reasoning was flawed.  I don't want to be a hero here or anywhere else -- in fact, virtually all of the time heroism involves altruistically sacrificing oneself for the good of others, oftentimes strangers, which is so very much not an Objectivist virtue.  I don't desire the adulation of crowds -- I want to live my life for its own sake, which generally leads to the crowds reviling you.





Post 82

Sunday, February 17 - 6:01pmSanction this postReply
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Mark:

Why do you recommend that the USA should have unnecessarily engaged Japan in total war, involving humongous casualties in the Pacific for American and Japanese draftees, involving the restriction of American liberty through the draft and taxation and other national security state regulations, involving the extermination of 150,000 helpless civilians by good ole Truman at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, involving in general vast suffering, death and destruction for Americans and Japanese alike? What ethical purpose would such warfare serve? To make you feel like a hero on this site?


Me:

Because Revenge was required. Blood for blood. Wound for wound. Life for life and then some. If the U.S. had possessed a weapon that could have killed every Japanese person on the home islands it would have been used. This has nothing to do with principle and logic. It has to do with the Prime Directive: Don't get mad, get even.

Take my word for it. I was there. You were not. The hatred for Japanese was so thick you could slice it up and serve it cooked. Americans hated the Japanese far more than they hated the Germans. The only reason we did not kill ten or twenty million of them is that we ran out of A-bombs after Nagasaki and they surrendered before we could bring more on line. If they had not surrendered we would have kept dropping them. If we had killed them all no one would have lost a wink of sleep.

Bob Kolker




Post 83

Monday, February 18 - 7:08amSanction this postReply
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I invite any of these "9/11" truth conspiracy theorists, or people who find Mark ramblings interesting on this topic, to spend a few days debating with creationists, or read creationist literature. It's startling to see the exact same fallacies of logic embraced in the same manner on such widely diverse topics. The fundamentals are the same, and Mark et al would do well to pick up a copy of Carl Sagan's "Science as a Candle in the Dark"



Post 84

Monday, February 18 - 7:34amSanction this postReply
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Jim Henshaw wrote:
Assuming what you said is true, the appropriate response is a prompt declaration of war against Japan, complete with a reference to a "day that will live in infamy", then, assuming the truth comes out shortly afterwards, impeaching and removing that SOB Roosevelt from office and letting Truman take the helm.
Why Truman? Henry Wallace was Vice-President in 1941.



Post 85

Monday, February 18 - 2:34pmSanction this postReply
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Excuse me if I'm not the first to bring this up but ...

As of 2008 (according to the Heritage Foundation freedom index) -- Australia's already more free than the U.S. And, if it could be demonstrated that the U.S. has achieved Rand's minimum standard of "semi-dictatorship" -- then it would already be morally acceptable for Australia to overthrow our hypothetically-demonstrated semi-dictatorship.

Besides having the means and the opportunity, Australia would need a proper motive -- something which would include a rubric for "dictatorship" (to see if the U.S. was already "70% of the way there", for instance); and to see what kinds of world havoc that'd mean for a globalized Earth.

Ed




Post 86

Monday, February 18 - 6:10pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, I understand you probably meant your last post as tongue 'n cheek, but in any case the United States is still one of the most free countries on this planet. Why would Australia pick the U.S. and skip over a totalitarian state like North Korea or Iran? If one agrees there is a measure of degree to freedom (obviously there is, e.g. the U.S. is better than Cuba as far as respecting individual rights) then it would be pointless for one free country to try and overthrow the government of a foreign country who's government is just ever so slightly less free-er than theirs while skipping over the most brutally oppressive regimes on this planet that have zero freedoms for their citizens.

On a side note, something to chew on: No two liberal free market-based democracies has ever gone to war with each other.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/
(Edited by John Armaos on 2/18, 6:14pm)




Post 87

Monday, February 18 - 6:45pmSanction this postReply
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John,

Yeah, that's what I said (when I said that Australia would need a proper motive; and then I outlined what that would have to be) -- just not in so many words as you, that's all.

Ed



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