RoR: Forum

Post 0

Monday, March 24 - 6:53pm

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http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2008/03/the-200-billion-bail-out-for-predator-banks-and-spitzer-charges-are-intimately-linked/

Greg Palast was interviewed on the left-progressive program "Connect the Dots," KPFK FM, L.A. area, available on the web - www.KPFT.org. this morning. He sounds credible in his claim that Spitzer was right at the point of busting the bank conspiracy wide open, demonstating how the below prime bank debancle was purely a scam from start to finish and accomplishing doing exactly what the crooked banking system intended. So Spitzer had to be eliminated.

I don't usually listen to Lila Garett's "Connect the Dots," but last night I was listening to some music on KPFK and accidentally left my clock radio tuned there. This time it was worth missing the NPR news. Some of the left is gradually awakening to the manipulations of the Federal Reserve to steal us blind.

I could connect another dot. I've written elsewhere here about the bust of Anthony L. Hargis & Co., a gold depository. The ostensive reason for putting Hargis in jail for six months was his refusal to give out all his private customer data without a warrant or court order, which is a crime in itself now in the land of freedom. And, it gave the various federal agencies the excuse to declare without proof or specific allegations of crimes, that Hargis was operating a criminal conspiracy, and then to sieze and keep or destroy the millions of dollars in assets that backed up the gold and dollar accounts of his customers.

However, they could have easily gotten a warrant, I'm sure - although then they would be on the hook to actually prosecute someone for some crime. The real reason, however, for the whole caper, was that Hargis, both in print and on his business website was attacking the credibility of the Federal Reserve. In fact, the judge reportedly told him months before that if he persisted in using his business to promote his crackpot ideas - never mind that a major rational for his business up front was the possibility of financial collapse of the U.S. banking system - then he could expect to be busted. And, again reportedly, the judge admonished him that he should have listened to the warning as he was sent off to prison.

So, you have a business whose premise is that things might go wrong in the financial markets, and you're going to provide a limited form of insurance, a safe place to put enough of ones assets to hopefully ride out such a crisis. And, you promote your business, naturally, by discussing the likelihood of such an emergency. And for that, your business is siezed and destroyed without anyone ever charged with an actual crime. Welcome to Amerika.

Post 1

Tuesday, March 25 - 11:19am

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Greg Palast was interviewed on the left-progressive program "Connect the Dots," KPFK FM, L.A. area, available on the web - www.KPFT.org. this morning. He sounds credible in his claim ...

KPKF is part of the Pacifica Radio Network: an extreme leftist, anti-USA, anti-capitalist, pro-Marxist radio network that includes, among other Marxist radio stations, WBAI on the east coast.

KPFK used to host a real kook named Dave Emory, who had a 4-hour long show every week called "One Step Beyond" in which everyone he didn't like was accused of consorting with assorted "fascists" and "neo-Nazis" at some point, somewhere in his or her career. KPFK also hosted a bloviating pro-Soviet apologist nincompoop named Michael Parenti, as well as our favorite paleo-Marxist, crypto-communist, pro-syndicalist, anti-capitalist, pro-innate-ideas, neo-Platonist linguist, Noam Chomsky.

Yes, I'm sure the schmuck you listened to "sounds credible."

It also sounds as if you'll believe anything.

Spitzer may or may not go to prison, but he will be tagged as a felon and be disbarred for breaking anti-money-laundering laws. Whether he squandered campaign funds, private funds, or his daughters' allowance money, is immaterial in this regard; he was trying to hide the purpose of a large financial transaction (which turned out to be account payments to a high-end call girl ring that he frequented) by breaking it into much smaller increments over an extended period of time: a money-laundering technique known as "structuring." Bank personnel are trained to look for these patterns (and no doubt have software that tracks withdrawal patterns like these).

That's what the Feds got him dead-to-rights on. If they're really vindictive -- the way Spitzer was in his own dealings with people he didn't like -- they'll get him on violating the Mann Act, too, since Spitzer paid the hooker "Kristen" to cross state lines (New Jersey to District of Columbia) for a purpose that was illegal.

We can only hope the Feds will be as vindictive as Spitzer was.

As Mark Steyn wrote, Spitzer thought of himself as "President for life of the Republic of Spitzer", even claiming that he broke no one's moral code or standards except his own, which was why he was resigning. Bullshit! Had he not been caught, he still would have been breaking his own moral code and standards yet obviously would not have resigned. He resigned because he was caught breaking the law -- period! -- and because (unlike Bill Clinton) he simply had no friends left to support him during a threatened impeachment proceeding.

Post 2

Tuesday, March 25 - 6:57pm

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Yes, KPFK is a left-wing station, just as KFI is predominently a right-wing station. I don't listen to KFI very often, although some of their hosts are quite entertaining. I just don't need to hear cheerleaders. My time is limited and my preference is music, or good, intelligent plays or else world news, hard news, not just opinion, and so my favorite listen is generally either NPR, with its marvelous "The Plays the Thing," or the BBC world news, despite it being a state-owned network, or a few select programs on KPFK, where I get information that I don't hear anywhere else, although I do have to factor in the bias of the hosts. And they do have some marvelous music that you won't hear anywhere else, especially on Sunday evenings.

If you listened to KPFK - or any Pacifica station - very much, you would likely very quickly find something to get upset about, especially as an objectivist, but it's hard to imagine ANYONE who wouldn't be upset a good portion of the time. One thing to remember about the American left is that it is NOT monolithic. Fortunately for us, they expend most of their energy fighting each other. In fact, KPFK and Pacifica is famous worldwide for its battles, takeovers, coups, counter-coups, etc.

Because of the fragmented nature of the constituency at Pacifica, in spite of the typical left-wing bias, they have also had in the past regular programs by right-wing anti-tax crusader Howard Jarvis of Prop 13 fame, or George Smith, author of "Atheism, the Case Against God," and interviews of Ayn Rand as well as Nathaniel Branden.

I note that Spitzer, assuming he was spending his own money, anyway, was committing a victimless crime. I.e., what he was doing was nobody's business except his and perhaps his wife's and family's. It was the criminal state that forced him to hide his transactions. Or, are you arguing that the state has the right to dictate personal morality? Or that the state has the right to demand that you account for your personal expenditures?

I have heard several analyses on both KPFK and NPR that point to the amounts, etc., of Spitzer's transactions as not normally triggering an investigation. And, it has been widely noted that the Bush administration Justice Dept. and its state and local friends have been prosecuting Democrats at about four times the rate of republicans in all manner of corruption cases. And are you defending the Mann Act, BTW??? As an objectivist????

However, the point is not that Spitzer was an angel, which is obviously not the case, but that Spitzer himself was allegedly about to unloose the dogs on the crooks who brought us to the current economic situation, just as Hargis was systematically exposing the underlying weakness of the Federal Reserve system.

Or, are you defending the Fed, as well? Is it the proper role of the state to regulate commerce and to establish a central bank? I note that Jefferson and Jackson both abolished federal banks in their times, and that economist Ludwig Von Mises in 1907 predicted that if the then proposed Federal Reserve System was put into place (which it was in 1913) that it would ultimately trigger a depression on a scale unmatched in history.

So, ad hominems aside, did you have any facts to point to, Mr. Shannon?

Post 3

Tuesday, March 25 - 9:48pm

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I note that Spitzer, assuming he was spending his own money, anyway, was committing a victimless crime. I.e., what he was doing was nobody's business except his and perhaps his wife's and family's.

Your head is full of mush. You are a shining example of why self-styled hippies of the right -- whether calling themselves Objectivists or Libertarians -- have made zero headway in politics and and almost zero headway in academia. You fools are so busy pretending to "celebrate your values" by having uninhibited sex with your philosophically perfect mates in the non-existent Galt's Gulch that you simply cannot -- correction, WILL NOT -- live in reality where the rest of us toil.

When a public figure with political power like Eliot Spitzer engages in illegal activities, especially illegal activities having to do with sex (such as consorting with prostitutes), he leaves himself wide open -- as in SPREAD EAGLED, LEGS IN THE AIR, WIDE OPEN -- to being blackmailed by anyone willing and able to start that whole ugly process going. Many call-girl rings, especially pricey ones like Spitzer's "Emperor's Club" -- have organized crime connections somewhere in their business structure. But even if Spitzer's whores and their pimps had no organized crime connections, Spitzer, by exposing himself in this way, exposed his constituency to the possible danger of suffering under policy decisions he would have to make under duress.

I'm not at all surprised that a so-called Objectivist missed this possibility completely. Objectivists, Libertarians, and other "hippies of the right" (as Rand once called the latter) are simply libertines who want to smoke their dope (Victimiless crime! Victimless crime!) and screw their whores (Victimless crime! Victimless crime!) - that's the extent of their political imaginations (which is why no one votes for them).

And are you defending the Mann Act, BTW??? As an objectivist????

I don't believe I've ever written on this board that I am an Objectivist.

Like it or not, the Mann Act is the law. Too bad if you don't like it. Call me old-fashioned, but I demand that public officials follow the law. It's a sort of minimum requirement for me (especially since qualities like "competence", "ability", and "fairness" are usually out of the question).

are you arguing that the state has the right to ... demand that you account for your personal expenditures?

Yes, the state has some right to inquire as to the purpose of your expenditures. Structuring is a typical technique used by terrorists to hide the purpose of financial withdrawals from bank accounts, and we live in an age of terrorism on U.S. soil. You don't believe that because you're too busy daydreaming about ideal societies in Galt's Gulch and listening to conspiracy theories on Marxist radio stations. If you claim some "right" to complete and total privacy in your financial dealings, despite the obvious fact that you live in society with other people and your dealings may have a negative effect on others (such as blowing them up), then you can go ahead and PUT YOUR MONEY UNDER YOUR MATTRESS. Then you'll have the total privacy you crave.

In New York, the anti-money-laundering laws, at least as far as structuring is concerned, become operative when you withdraw $10,000 or more. It's not unreasonable for the state to want to know the purpose of such a transaction. A boat? Fine. Balloon payment on a condo? No problem. Offshore account of a prostitution ring...and you're the governor of a state? Uh, no. Sorry. Maybe it's OK in Galt's Gulch, but not in the real world.

And in case you were unable to figure this out: No, the state is not in a position to pick and choose which structuring manipulations it will prosecute and which it will let pass as simply being "victimiless crimes." If it's illegal to run a red light, then it's illegal -- period. You can't say, "Well, if you run it at noon when there's cross traffic, it creates a dangerous situation, so it's a crime; but if you run a red light at 4 AM and there's no cross traffic, then it's a victimless crime and ceases to be a crime at all." It doesn't work that way. Spitzer got caught by laws that he perfectly well knew about, and helped put in place.

You've provided no evidence that Spitzer was "about to unloose the dogs" on anything having to do with any banking scandal. Your "facts" consist of a yokel making allegations on a kooky Marxist radio station, well known for its hallucinogenic conspiracy allegations. Additionally, as we all know, Spitzer was the kind of self-styled knight in shining armor, fighting corruption, real or imaginary, who was, no doubt, "about to unloose the dogs" on almost anything, any one, at any time. If not the alleged banking scandal, then Spitzer would be about to unloose the dogs on alleged corruption on the board of the New York Stock Exchange; if not the NYSE, then, the housing industry; if not the housing industry, then nickel-and-dime prostitution rings and Philippines sex tours. Had he fallen two years from now, flakes at KPFK would still say "See! He was eliminated by a conspiracy of Thai massage parlors, the cruise ship industry, and the State Department! He was about unloose the dogs and go public about nefarious sex-tour activities, so they had to eliminate him!" LOL! Spitzer eliminated himself by his unbelievable HUBRIS. He was a spoiled, pompous, egotistical crusader. He was mean spirited and vindictive and lost his political friends...which is why he knew he'd never survive impeachment proceedings.

Yes, KPFK is a left-wing station, just as KFI is predominently a right-wing station.

KFI is the west coast analog of WABC talk radio on the east cost (with Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levin, Bob Grant, Laura Ingraham, etc.). KFI and WABC are right-wing and center-right-wing only compared to mainstream radio, which is clearly left and center-left. By contrast, KPFK is EXTREME LEFT MARXIST. That would be the analog of an imaginary far right "KKK Talk Radio" or "Neo-Nazi Talk". That you really think the extreme KPFK is simply the "left, progressive" version of a right-wing station like KFI shows that you have no idea of what "left" and "right" mean, and no standards for evaluating these concepts.

In other words, Phil, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

Now go away before I get mad.

Post 4

Wednesday, March 26 - 6:12pm

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Why would I "go away" from my own thread?

I thank you for letting us know exactly who you are...

Bank Bailout Linked to Spitzer Bust