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Saturday, August 30 - 5:25amSanction this postReply
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An excerpt from Bill Clinton's Wednesday speech at the DNC:
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These challenges cry out for American ideas and American innovation. When Barack Obama unleashes them, America will save lives, win new allies, open new markets, and create wonderful new jobs for our own people.

Most important of all, Barack Obama knows that America cannot be strong abroad unless we are first strong at home.
People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.

Look at the example the Republicans have set.

In this decade, American workers have consistently given us rising productivity. That means, year after year, they work harder and produce more.

Now, what did they get in return? Declining wages, less than one-fourth as many new jobs as in the previous eight years, smaller health care and pension benefits, rising poverty, and the biggest increase in income inequality since the 1920s.

American families by the millions are struggling with soaring health care costs and declining coverage.

I will never forget the parents of children with autism and other serious conditions who told me on the campaign trail that they couldn't afford health care and couldn't qualify their children for Medicaid unless they quit work and starved or got a divorce.

Are these the family values the Republicans are so proud of?

What about the military families pushed to the breaking point by multiple, multiple deployments? What about the assault on science and the defense of torture? What about the war on unions and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?

And what about Katrina and cronyism?

My fellow Democrats, America can do better than that.

And Barack Obama will do better than that.

But first we have to elect him.

The choice is clear. The Republicans in a few days will nominate a good man who has served our country heroically and who suffered terribly in a Vietnamese prison camp. He loves his country every bit as much as we do. As a senator, he has shown his independence of right-wing orthodoxy on some very important issues.

But on the two great questions of this election -- how to rebuild the American dream and how to restore America's leadership in the world -- he still embraces the extreme philosophy that has defined his party for more than 25 years.

And it is, to be fair to all the Americans who aren't as hard-core Democrats as we, it's a philosophy the American people never actually had a chance to see in action fully until 2001, when the Republicans finally gained control of both the White House and the Congress.

Then we saw what would happen to America if the policies they had talked about for decades actually were implemented. And look what happened.

They took us from record surpluses to an exploding debt; from over 22 million new jobs to just 5 million; from increasing working families' incomes to nearly $7,500 a year to a decline of more than $2,000 a year; from almost 8 million Americans lifted out of poverty to more than 5.5 million driven into poverty; and millions more losing their health insurance.

Now, in spite of all this evidence, their candidate is actually promising more of the same.

Think about it: more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans that will swell the deficit, increase inequality, and weaken the economy; more Band-Aids for health care that will enrich insurance companies, impoverish families, and increase the number of uninsured; more going it alone in the world, instead of building the shared responsibilities and shared opportunities necessary to advance our security and restore our influence.

They actually want us to reward them for the last eight years by giving them four more.
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Any counter-arguments to this?

Besides the philosophic superiority of refined, up-and-coming counter-arguments (which will be self-evident to the philosophically astute), are there any layman-style counter-arguments -- or does Bill Clinton have that kind of "coffee-talk" debate won, hands-down (because of the facts)?

Ed






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Post 1

Saturday, August 30 - 5:49amSanction this postReply
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Half of that, at least, is of Democratic origin - the president may propose, but Congress [where the Dems are] disposes...
 
 
American families by the millions are struggling with soaring health care costs and declining coverage..
Who controlled Congress - Repubs or Dems?

And what about Katrina and cronyism?
Who was in charge of New Orleans - Repub or Dem? the state - Repub or Dem? the graft of construction or lsck of in NO - Repub or Dem?


and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?
With the Dems in control of Congress, and rich as all sin, am sure the favors go quite unlimited to them...

and the jobs statement is false...
[am sure ye can find those statistics]




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Post 2

Saturday, August 30 - 6:40amSanction this postReply
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This is typical political rhetoric. One's own party gets all the credit and the other party gets all the blame.

Bill Clinton said:
I will never forget the parents of children with autism and other serious conditions who told me on the campaign trail that they couldn't afford health care and couldn't qualify their children for Medicaid unless they quit work and starved or got a divorce.
Well, did Clinton pay for their health care from the Clinton family fortune? They are millionaires many times over.
They [Republicans] took us from record surpluses to an exploding debt;
What a joke. The tiny surpluses in 1997-2000 were due largely to a Republican Congress after 1994 and a booming stock market (realized capital gains and stock option gains produce tax revenue). See if you can find any surpluses in the FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter years.

The surpluses in 1997-2000 were records in dollars terms. However, the surpluses in the 1920's with Republicans in the White House were far greater as a percent of government receipts.
more Band-Aids for health care that will enrich insurance companies, impoverish families,
Is that all the Band-Aids did? Democratic Band-Aids have put us in the current condition. Which party passed Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? How many Democrats in Congress voted against the Medicare prescription drug plan? Lastly, the biggest "health insurance company" is the federal government!
(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 8/30, 8:07am)




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Post 3

Saturday, August 30 - 7:49amSanction this postReply
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I particularly like this bit: "and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?"

Does he think we've forgotten about his selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom or peddling pardons out of the White House back door? Talk about 'audacity!'

When he was found guilty of perjury and had his license to practice law taken away, the sentence should have included the following condition: "You shall not be allowed to engage in political campaigns unless wearing a stained blue dress and a sign around your neck that says, I tell lies."



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Post 4

Saturday, August 30 - 10:20amSanction this postReply
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Bill Clinton says,
These challenges cry out for American ideas and American innovation. When Barack Obama unleashes them, America will save lives, win new allies, open new markets, and create wonderful new jobs for our own people.
How? Clinton doesn't tell us. These are simply grandiose promises with no specifics to back them up.
Most important of all, Barack Obama knows that America cannot be strong abroad unless we are first strong at home. People the world over have always been more impressed by the power of our example than by the example of our power.
Again, glittering generalities. What does he mean by "strong"? No answer.
Look at the example the Republicans have set.

In this decade, American workers have consistently given us rising productivity. That means, year after year, they work harder and produce more.

Now, what did they get in return? Declining wages, less than one-fourth as many new jobs as in the previous eight years, smaller health care and pension benefits, rising poverty, and the biggest increase in income inequality since the 1920s.
If American workers had consistently given us rising productivity -- if they had been working harder and producing more -- then this would be reflected in rising real wages. In a free-market, the most productive workers receive the highest real wages, including managers and executives whose higher salaries reflect their contribution to productivity. If average real wages and salaries are lower, it is because aggregate productivity is lower.

As for increasing income inequality, why is that a desirable goal? Income equality is a premise that very few people ever bother to question. If people aren't equally productive, why should they receive equal incomes? In any case, one of the reasons for rising income inequality is the greater number of immigrants who are willing to work for lower wages, which are nevertheless higher than what they would have received in their home countries. Besides, it is the coercive labor legislation favored by the Democrats that has raised the wages of some workers at the expense of others, who are then forced into unemployment. Such policies have created the very income inequality for which the Democrats are now blaming the Republicans.
American families by the millions are struggling with soaring health care costs and declining coverage.
And whose fault is that? It is the fault of the government's involvement in health care and third-party payers, not of a truly free market in medicine. The Clintons want to add insult to injury by imposing "universal health care," a euphemism for socialized medicine.
What about the military families pushed to the breaking point by multiple, multiple deployments?
That's an easy criticism for the Democrats to make. Would it have been any different under their administration?
What about the assault on science and the defense of torture?
I don't know what he means by "the assault on science." As to the "defense of torture," is he referring to water boarding? I've heard that it's very frightening and effective, but involves no physical injury.
What about the war on unions and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?
The assumption here is that unions raise real wages and improve workers' standard of living. Nothing could be further from the truth. By raising the cost of labor, unions reduce the number of workers that employers can afford to hire, which is to say that they cause unemployment for some workers by raising the money wages of other workers (those who belong to the union). In so doing, unions lower aggregate productivity, thereby reducing the average real wage.
And what about Katrina and cronyism?
Cronyism? I had to laugh at that! Look who's talking! Besides, FEMA is a government agency, which could scarcely have been expected to perform efficiently. This is not the fault of the Republicans. It is the fault of government, Republican or Democrat. One of the best ways of mitigating disasters is to allow price gouging by private companies seeking to profit off of the shortages created by the disaster. The high prices would attract profit-seeking suppliers. The increased supply would drive the prices down and provide victims of the disaster with much needed goods and services. The profit motive would serve to ameliorate the shortages much more quickly than a government agency like FEMA ever could. But price gouging in an emergency is something that Democrats as well as Republicans oppose, because they regard it as an attempt to profit off of other people's misfortune.
Think about it: more tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans that will swell the deficit, increase inequality, and weaken the economy;
Not true. Tax cuts for the wealthy encourage investment and help to create new jobs, thereby strengthening the economy.




(Edited by William Dwyer on 8/30, 2:05pm)




Post 5

Saturday, August 30 - 10:35amSanction this postReply
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Merlin,

They [Republicans] took us from record surpluses to an exploding debt;
What a joke. The tiny surpluses in 1997-2000 were due largely to a Republican Congress after 1994 and a booming stock market (realized capital gains and stock option gains produce tax revenue). See if you can find any surpluses in the FDR, Kennedy, Johnson, and Carter years.

Excellent rebuttal.

Ed




Post 6

Saturday, August 30 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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Steve,

I particularly like this bit: "and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?"

Does he think we've forgotten about his selling nights in the Lincoln bedroom or peddling pardons out of the White House back door? Talk about 'audacity!'

Great comeback (and I really liked that bit about the stained blue dress, too!).

Ed




Post 7

Saturday, August 30 - 12:53pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

As for increasing income inequality, why is that a desirable goal? Income equality is a premise that very few people ever bother to question. If people aren't equally productive, why should they receive equal incomes? ...
Right! I remember your awesome RoR essay on this very thing.
 ... In any case, one of the reasons for rising income inequality is the greater number of immigrants who are willing to work for lower wages, which are nevertheless higher than what they would have received in their home countries. Besides, it is the coercive labor legislation favored by the Democrats that has raised the wages of some workers at the expense of others, who are then forced into unemployment. Such policies have created the very income inequality for which the Democrats are now blaming the Republicans.
Well, that's at least the half of it. Another half of it is the recently skyrocketing salaries for CEOs. I'm not saying it's wrong that their salaries have been skyrocketing for the last few years -- whether the economy has done well or poorly -- I'm just saying that it's part of the income inequality that you and I understand is, in general, a moral outcome of markets.

A Devil's Advocate would say it's fine for CEOs to get richer at an increasing rate -- but not when the economy is in a recession. These advocates of the Devil would say that part of the reason the economy is in the gutter is because of cronyism (which they, unfortunately, think will somehow get fixed with more of the same poison that caused it in the first place: Big Government).

Any comments on that?

Ed



Post 8

Saturday, August 30 - 1:05pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

What about the war on unions and the unlimited favors for the well-connected?
The assumption here is that unions raise real wages and improve workers' standard of living. Nothing could be further from the truth. By raising the cost of labor, unions reduce the number of workers that employers can afford to hire, which is to say that they cause unemployment for some workers by raising the money wages of other workers (those who belong to the union). In so doing, unions lower aggregate productivity, thereby reducing the average real wage.
Great response.

And what about Katrina and cronyism?
Cronyism? I had to laugh at that! Look who's talking! Besides, FEMA is a government agency, which could scarcely have been expected to perform efficiently. This is not the fault of the Republicans. It is the fault of government, Republican or Democrat. One of the best ways of mitigating disasters is to allow price gouging by private companies seeking to profit off of the shortages created by the disaster. The high prices would attract profit-seeking suppliers. The increased supply would drive the prices down and provide victims of the disaster with much needed goods and services. The profit motive would serve to ameliorate the shortages much more quickly than a government agency like FEMA ever could. But price gouging in an emergency is something that Democrats as well as Republicans oppose, because they regard it as an attempt to profit off of other people's misfortune.
Excellent free market solution to natural disasters! It's kind of amazing how there seems to be a free market solution to every human problem ever known. The stop-gap in the application of these available solutions seems to be the critical mass of human enlightenment required to just let go of trying to control what we're not meant to, and to just let the free market solutions work.

Ed



Post 9

Saturday, August 30 - 1:12pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, Bill,

There is another reason that income inequality can come into being - regulations that restrict free enterprise and favor special interests with government ties. That plus a declining economy will begin to reduce the middle class.

I love Bill's statement: "If people aren't equally productive, why should they receive equal incomes? ..."

But,income inequality is bad when it is comes about by state fiat - like royalty and the peasants, tyrants and the oppressed, crony capitalism and the tax-payer. It is the statists that are up in arms about income inequality in a free market, but pretend it doesn't exist in totalitarian systems.



Post 10

Saturday, August 30 - 1:15pmSanction this postReply
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The assumption here is that unions raise real wages and improve workers' standard of living. Nothing could be further from the truth. By raising the cost of labor, unions reduce the number of workers that employers can afford to hire, which is to say that they cause unemployment for some workers by raising the money wages of other workers (those who belong to the union). In so doing, unions lower aggregate productivity, thereby reducing the average real wage.


And as consequence, see the Auto manufactors - union priced out of competition, and dying as consequence...




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