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Post 20

Friday, February 11 - 3:43pmSanction this postReply
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Yeah - remember, the same was said of the Shah of Iran - who, oddly, also got ousted on this date... and look what ended up there...



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Post 21

Saturday, February 12 - 10:12amSanction this postReply
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Mubarek stepped in it when he floated the idea of inserting his son onto his 'throne'.

The people of Egypt were right to cry out, 'enough is enough.'

But Mubarek was not Saddam. He did not cling to power until his fingers bled.


The Egyptian military council has an interesting balancing act to perform now. They have to oversee what better be regarded as free and fair elections, and while doing so, might be overseeing a dilution of their own political power in Egypt. Is that going to happen?

And even if it does, when all the celebrations are over, and Egypts economies -- which have been struggling for 6,000 years -- have not adequately reconciled the spectre of high unemployement, reduced opportunities rising commodity prices, etc., then will the pressures that erupted in that square have been relieved by shifting of the name tags in government?

The Egyptian military has got it good in Egypt. (The militaries in most muslim nations have it good, it is where the best of the best go to escape the squalor. For example the military in Bangladesh which is really like their civil defense force, constantly battling life at the exit of India's sewage disposal system, the Ganges.)

There is definitely a difference between life inside the base and life outside the base in Muslim nations, and that is part of what drives tensions there. The power structure, in the past, has successfully painted the squalor outside the bases as being the fault of the Great Satan West. In Egypt, the Egyptian military structure is far more that just Mubarek at the top of the local heap. The local heap -- including the West -- threw Mubarek under the bus without a second thought.

But the local heap remains now freshly in need of putting on a credible show of democracy.

When push comes to shove, will the Egyptian military peacefully give up its power in Egypt?

With Mubarek's ouster, push did not come to shove...





Post 22

Saturday, February 12 - 1:05pmSanction this postReply
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Fred wrote, "The Egyptian military council has an interesting balancing act to perform now. They have to oversee what better be regarded as free and fair elections, and while doing so, might be overseeing a dilution of their own political power in Egypt. Is that going to happen

That's a very astute question.

There has been talk that the military might modify Egypt's constitution while in power (not an unusual process for that country), and I imagine that they would so in a way to preserve much or all of their power, while recognizing more freedoms than the people currently have. I'm suspecting that they know that it is important to maintain the nations high level of respect for the army while attempting to satisfy those demands that would otherwise just generate another revolt later if not addressed. They use their military as a kind of extra-constitutional checks and balances. Thailand does that as well. Every now and then the military takes over because the politicians have screwed up beyond belief and the Army make minor changes, lets things cool off for a while, seeds a new government, and turns it loose.

There are two kinds of power exercised by the military in Egyptian politics - the power the military wields over economic matters, and the power the they command to change the government, when needed. I see them loosening their power over economic matters - too a degree - while retaining their power to intervene in the government. This power to intervene is tightly linked to the people's trust in the military. That trust is what allows it to act like a democratically-driven recall function - as the agent that does the recall of the government, the restructuring, and then turns the new government loose.

Fred, I agree that the primary issue is going to the economy. They have an ancient tradition of corruption in Egypt. Everyone at the top is wired in, Mubarak, the higher level officers, and business cronies. They could actually all become richer (by partaking of a much larger pie) if they made changes to encourage more free enterprise - but they might not see that or just don't want to risk any change to the fact that under the current structure, they are getting theirs. (Mubarak doesn't count, he was just the face of the structure). If they don't make economic changes, they will have more revolt down the road.

That group at the top feeds off of Egypt and to continue doing so, they will have to quiet the people, enough for the money to resume flowing. That means making what changes are needed (and no more than needed). Changing the face on the structure, which seems like a major change, but might really be the least substantive of changes.

China's great push right now is to use their currently cheap labor to make goods that are sold to foreigners for the capital to build a manufacturing infrastructure and to acquire long-term, basic resources - minerals, energy sources, etc. It is a race for them against the rising cost of their labor and the dangers of the foreigners becoming unable or unwilling to continue to buy. As China's economies become larger and freer they begin to generate a middle class and a middle class is a more expensive labor. If China gets the manufacturing infrastructure in place, and the resouces on line, they will be in a good position to shift from sales to foreigners, to sales to their own population. They have this massive population and when the population has enough money they can replace the undependable purchasing power of the gwailo. This is their great goal. (China's problem of course is that they are trying to plan this and each intervention in the market place will have adverse effects and those adverse effects may be the monkey wrench in their plans.)

Egypt's rulers-of-the-structure need to see that their country's cheap labor and high unemployment are the greatest assets they have now when added to the opportunity to set the economy free and the power to keep things stable (if they will begin the process of recognizing rights, and if the strong Islamic influence in the population doesn't derail their attempts - 90% Muslim and 82% believe anyone leaving the religion should be killed).

Long term the only hope is to let Capitalism's benefits role in for Egyptians at a rate that makes the people happy while also increasing the civil rights - all to keep the average Joe too happy to listen to what will be increasingly shrill cries from the fundamentalists (this is NOT the way they will want to go). With enough time, and with a secular education of the next generation or two they can avoid the fatal clash with Islam that results in Theocracy. I wouldn't take an even money bet they make it.




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Post 23

Saturday, February 12 - 5:35pmSanction this postReply
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This "bloodless coup" is being hailed as a step towards democracy in which all elements of Egyptian society will have a say in how the government is run. Even assuming that that happens, is it necessarily an improvement over Mubarek's dictatorship?

A lot of people seem to think so, including our president. You know the definition of democracy, right? Two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner.



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Post 24

Monday, February 14 - 7:32amSanction this postReply
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Egypt is subject to the same 'what works, works' law driving the rest of the universe.

What gives one optimism is, parts of the Egyptian nation, at least, have seen the benefit of 'what works' -- peace with Israel, stability in the region. Life's a struggle even without waging war. It's expensive to wage an offensive war. It's really expensive to fight a war and lose not only it, but the positive benefits of peace. The only political downside to the continuing peace with Israel and stability in the region has been the political anger of fringe radical elements. In other words, a so far minor political cost readily borne, with acceptable consequences so far.

If enough of Egypt regards continuing that peace as a benefit to Egypt, then that is all the convincing they need to maintain it. If enough of Egypt regards continuing trade and stability in that region as a benefit to Egypt, then ditto.

And if enough do not, and value the opposite, then the opposite.

One path will likely 'work' for Egypt much better than the alternative. The universe doesn't care, I don't think, which path Egypt takes, it just shows up to enforce the law.

So, lets hope Egypt the nation chooses well. Let's even encourage them, if we can.






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