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Post 0

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 8:18amSanction this postReply
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 I wonder how many doctors they'll have left in the state if this thing passes. Wow.



Post 1

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 1:20pmSanction this postReply
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Coincidence? Hmm... I guess Rand knew that Wisconsin is socialism central? Anyways, a great article, and a horrible health plan.

(Edited by Alexander Butziger on 7/24, 1:23pm)




Post 2

Tuesday, July 24, 2007 - 9:26pmSanction this postReply
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A lot of doctors have already left the country. Wisconsin has a long and sad history of being an incubator of socialism. It was founded in 1848 and was often called the "German state."

It also gave birth to the "Wisconsin idea." This is the idea that everyone should be ruled by a class of academics. Wisconsin pioneered many of the tragic reforms that later became part of the New Deal.

This legacy largely comes from Bob La Follette. While his opposition to WW1 was highly principled, he did a great deal of harm.

Hopefully, this will totally bankrupt the state.




Post 3

Thursday, July 26, 2007 - 10:20amSanction this postReply
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All kinds of theories are emerging to explain Wisconsin: the plaque from all that cheese builds up in the arteries feeding the brain, and those folks are all f'n nuts?

The 'German State' idea, I think, makes sense.   But, can't be too hard on Wisconsin.  There is alot of that left lingering in parts of PA as well.  I mean, with Uncle Gov Ed's casino/slots lurch,  now PA can proudly claim to not only be the Arkansas of the north, but Mississipi too.  I think we're getting new license plates: "We're Mississippi, too!"   PA values state run education so highly that we are willing to shake the loose change out of our sad sack elderly to pretend to be paying for it, when all that really is is yet another cozy deal between state gov't and the Philly mob.   What 'property tax' relief is trickling out from Eds Philly mob connected crony friends and their state handed out 'gaming licenses' is being implemented as gesture politics redistributive crumbs, pretend Huey Longism, a show for the idiots.  As always. We got loads, the unions used to be big around here, and they still haven't figured out the 'used to be' part.

So, how to explain Germanic fervor?   That which was sweeping Germany.   A once un-American widespread cultural desire to have the state plumbers tuck everybody in at night.   Hayek's "Volksgemeinschaft", and boy, are the volks about to get the shaft.   This used to be someplace, now we're all fat ass Michael Moore with our lower lips sticking out, pouting, begging for that imagined Nerf World paid for by the 'richest country on earth.'    Carcass carvers, not a clue how the beast was built.    Unsightly, you have to avert your eyes.  Makes you want to puke.   America might have been once closer, I think, to escaping the dark ages/tribal jungle.   Not today, we're Mooring-up for our 15 minutes of senseless noise.

Someone here posted a link to the late 70's Donahue/Rand interview, and on the same YouTube site were links to a '59 Mike Wallace/Rand interview.   No surprises, but the '59 interview was riveting, with Mike Wallace accusing Rand of foisting 'un-American' principles on America, which he claims was fully signed up on the 'we are our Brother's Keeper' state run bandwagon.  She must have been about 54 at the time, AS had just been published/ been drawing acclaim/fire.   The beekeepers were dutifully alarmed, and Univof Mich instructed Bostonian Wallace was clearly fully programmed and in gear in '59.  She was brilliant in the interview, and accurately pointed out that the American electorate did not have a choice of parties, both were advocating variants of state run socialism.  She said,  America has never had the opportunity to vote for a party of power that advocated capitalism.   Mike Wallace's point was, that is the way America prefers its capitalism,  disguised as state run socialism, expressed democratically. Wallace offered usual knee-jerk crap about robber barons, which Rand pointed out where made 'robber barons' via cozy deals with the state.   Rand pointed out, this was once a democracy constrained by a constitution of liberty, but no more.   Rand argued, "separation of state and church should be augmented by separation of state and economy, but we as people attempting to live under freedom have failed to achieve that last goal."   So, her point about no choice in political parties: just two mobs selling access to the guns of state to different targeted special interest groups, both claiming to have better plans to "run the economy", as if we, too, were centrally planned/command economies, like the Soviets.  

Ie, exactly where we are today, and in fact, were then as well. 

This pooch was screwed long ago.  Forget the 1St Amendment, Durkheim's God totem 'Society' became our OnSizeFitsAll national religion over a hundred years ago, we've long been over-run and fully Burka-d up with our variant of totalitarianism.  The Social Scientologists succeeded in overruning our once free nation.  The Taliban even enforces 'Anti-Social' tendencies in our public schools, to weed out the Individuals.   Watch the little instructoids sneer when they knee jerk to the words 'rugged individualism.'   Their instruction has been very, very deep, and like all good little instructoid/robots, they respond appropriately, as instructed.

It probably has to totally break before it can be rebuilt, but there is no guarantee that in the breaking, what comes out of that is the next tribal dark ages.  But, you can't take any of it seriously.  I mean, at its very foundation, it's all total going nowhere fast crap.  We know the punch line already, we've seen this sad joke played out many times. 

<WARNING check limiter on inner dialog>
Note to self: go long on body bags.
<\WARNING>

regards,
Fred




Post 4

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 7:17amSanction this postReply
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As a Wisconsin resident, I am terrified of this.  Luckilly I don't live far from the Illinois border.  I would move if this came to pass.  I love the non-governmental aspects of this state, but its tendency to be the People's Republic of Wisconsin is disturbing. 



Post 5

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 2:26pmSanction this postReply
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Is Illinois any better? Is any state in the Midwest better?




Post 6

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 2:34pmSanction this postReply
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Chris Baker wrote:
Is Illinois any better?
Yes. There are no proposals for IL to nationalize health care like in WI. Moreover, IL has much lower state income taxes than WI. Nor does IL tax retirement income, and WI does.




Post 7

Friday, July 27, 2007 - 2:35pmSanction this postReply
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Pete:

I don't think any of us should suffer from the illusion that the desire for this is limited to Wisconsin.    A good chunk of the entire country wants exactly that.   Enjoy Wisconsin; we got nuts everywhere in this country.  Popped up there first, that's all.    The two socialist parties of power have got the scientific division of demographics down so pat that they are both always a bad hair away from power either way.      Rand was right in that Wallace interview way back in '59, even during the hight of the Cold War: in this country, not a great deal of difference between the two parties of power.  In response to the Democrats plans to 'run the economy', the Republicans counter only with their 'better plan to run the economy.'

What is missing is, a party offering up the idea that "it is not the function of a non-totalitarian state to attempt to run 'the' Economy, as if 'they' were an 'it.'      We don't have that choice in America, maybe never have.     Just like the Soviets,  our politics is based on the idea that we are a Centrally Planned/Command Economy, and it is the proper responsibility/function of the state to 'run the economy.'  Just listen to the total nonsense on CNN, etc.

Who said the Soviet Union collapsed?    Macy's bought Gimbels, period.    There has been a collectivist merger, that's all.

regards,
Fred




Post 8

Monday, July 30, 2007 - 10:34pmSanction this postReply
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     I wonder when CNN (or even FOX'news') will cover this?

LLAP
J:D




Post 9

Thursday, August 9, 2007 - 1:36pmSanction this postReply
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I wonder when CNN (or even FOX'news') will cover this?

Judging from the recent endless coverage of "Wha...wha...what  is wrong with America?", the answer to that is "when chickens have lips."

I mean, when it fits into the script.

An unseen yet understood new birthright in this country is based on the belief that Life=The Endless Thirteenth Grade.

Hey, the poor guy signed up with the program.  He and his wife played by what they thought the rules were, and what they thought the rewards were going to be for playing by those rules.   Those being, in America, if you keep your nose clean, if you show up to school almost every day, if you sit in your seat and don't fidget too much, if you behave yourself, you will graduate into The Endless Thirteenth Grade of Life, where the same rules apply.    In the endless Thirteenth Grade of Life, if you show up for your job almost every day, if you don't Go Postal, if you make half an effort, well then, no matter what else, you get to graduate to a care free retirement someday, paid for by many more younger workers piling onto the Endless Unit Quintile Freight Train.

Or not.  But, that's the essence of this poor guys lament: "What is wrong with America?"

Indeed.

Mr Post WWII Generation doesn't get it.  He played by the same rules that the WWII Generation played by. Well, almost.   Half as many of them played their game after throwing over 400,000 of themselves into a meat grinder in the name of creating the Free World.  Only, instead of staring Germania/The Grim Reaper in the face, celebrating in TImes Square and procreating itself into an excess of life and abundance on an uneven/smoldering playing field during 20 years of 'anything goes', we '60s sons and daughters of the Greatest NutBusting Generation opted for the affluent life in a world we didn't create, with fewer kids much later in life, a career, travel, vacation homes, and a lifetime 15% payroll tax on an already surplus paying demographic as a cheap/bargain 'thank-you' to our parents who created this affluent beast we've been carving up like carcass carvers.   

How does a demographic that is already paying a generational surplus into a 'pay as you go' welfare scheme spend its entire productive working life taxed at 15% of earnings(please don't make me laugh and say "its only 7.5%", I said earnings, not income), and yet expect the same 'soft landing' benefits afforded to much fewer who a] deserve it for creating the Free World, but b] realized it after a hard life yet burdened by ony a 3-6% payroll tax?   An entire generation of working class folks has now spent nearly its entire productive life taxed at an unprecedented 15% of earnings, purportedly justified on actuarial Trust Fund considerations, but of course(as Clark explained almost 30 years ago), actually being spent as fast as it was taxed.   Its one thing to have realized that 30 years ago.  Many did, but certainly not most, and that is the problem.   Because even realizing it, folks still had to earn under the 15% earnings burden.  That is, on average, 10% of earnings more than the smaller demographic generation whose benefits were being paid for, as a well deserved 'thank-you' for creating the Free World.    But, that means, 10% less of earnings to pay for things like personal pension assets, etc.   When wondering where the 'savings' of this generation went, one doesn't have to look far to see where the squeeze came from.    And now that 'thank you' is on the cusp of its final gasp. A double gotcha, when you contemplate the additional strain on old age/health services about to ramp up continuously over the next 30-40 years.   But, don't expect either of the idiot parties to light the fuse on that one.   In the pending widespread realization of what many folks have known for years was coming, there will be 15 minutes of two groups of idiots trying to sell us "They did it!"

What's that?  Some of the sons and daughters of the Greatest Generation can't do their own math?   They actually thought that well deserved SS 'thank-you' to The Greatest Generation was going to maintain the illusion of their own soft landing forever, however defined? As in, "Well, sure, our much fewer grandparents didn't live in a world with the health care options available to us, our much fewer grandparents didn't expect as a birthright any imagined 'soft landing' after their years of effort, our much fewer grandparents looked their doctor in the eye and vice versa without any "gresham's law poluted third party payer ring-around-the-rosy' nonsense, our much fewer grandparents didn't attempt to live anything like us, and still they eventually died, unlike us.  Because as our WWII weary but surviving  grandparents often told us, and we often apparently believe , "we're special."   We aren't going to ever get old and sickly and die, or at least, not without a 'whatever it costs' fight, paid for on our behalf.  Hell, we are not even ever going to lose a war and suffer consequences as a result.  We aren't ever going to have to worry about paying for miracles that our grandparents never even considered as a birthright.    We don't have to consider demographics or ethics or who is going to pay for our miracles, because ... we showed up, some fought to a gruesome draw in Korea, some a gruesome loss in VietNam, some a TKO in Gulf War I, and are about to retire early from Gulf War 2.    But hey, we kept our noses clean, and now, as a birthright, because we were born into 'the richest country on earth', we are entitled to live forever without effort or worry or concern or consequence.   

Nerf World Nirvana is ours, as a birthright.

And if not, then what I mean is, "Wha...wha....wha....what is wrong with America?"    Where is our guaranteed, endless Thirteenth Grade of Life?  The one we've come to expect, as a birthright, endlessly paid for by others, in fact, now mostly others long dead?

regards,
Fred




Post 10

Friday, August 10, 2007 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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lovely rant, Fred - I like it.



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