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Post 0

Sunday, May 25 - 6:29pmSanction this postReply
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Bob Barr: the man who sank the NLP. Then again, maybe he's just beating the dead horse into dead horse jam. *shrugs*


-- Brede



Post 1

Sunday, May 25 - 7:31pmSanction this postReply
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Rgggh...Horse Jam....






Post 2

Monday, May 26 - 12:13amSanction this postReply
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Bob Barr clearly isn't a purist big-l Libertarian, but he may be the best shot at getting more than 1% of the vote. Ironically, the left-libs outraged at Barr's nomination may find their civil liberties enhanced by Barr if he pulls enough Republican votes from McCain in swing states to throw the election to Obama.

I'm disappointed that Ruwart didn't run for VP, since a Barr / Ruwart ticket would pull voters from both the Republicans and Demcrats, but I guess it's hard to overcome your disdain for someone who only agrees with you about 90% of stuff. /sarcasm




Post 3

Monday, May 26 - 10:00amSanction this postReply
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I searched all over C-Spam but did not find the convention archives.  It is fine.  I do not need to see it.  What can be learned watching freethinking political individualists lined up alphabetically by state?

The choice of Robert Barr over Mary Ruwart echoes the selection of Ron Paul over Russell Means.  The "party of principle" chooses professional politicians because they have more experience getting votes.  Well, that, too is the result of a principle, the same one that moved the party from Denver to Washington: power corrupts.

Maybe for 2012, they can find an unemployed Democrat with experience as a military-industrial lobbyist.




Post 4

Monday, May 26 - 10:17amSanction this postReply
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Bob Barr

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Political positions in Congress

  • During his tenure, Barr was regarded as one of the most conservative members of Congress  ... "the idol of the gun-toting, abortion-fighting, IRS-hating hard right wing of American politics" 
  • ... Barr was a strong supporter of the War on Drugs, reflecting his previous experience as Anti-Drug Coordinator for the Department of Justice. ... "design a World War II-style victory plan to save America's children from illegal drugs." ...  “ There is no legitimate use whatsoever for marijuana. This is not medicine. This is bogus witchcraft. It has no place in medicine, no place in pain relief...
  • ... Barr advocated complete federal prohibition of medical marijuana.   ...  The "Barr Amendment" to the 1999 Omnibus spending bill not only blocked implementation of Initiative 59 but prohibited the vote tally from even being released. ...The Barr Ammendment also prohibited future laws that would "decrease the penalties for marijuana or other Schedule I drugs" ... 
  • ...authored and sponsored the Defense of Marriage Act, a law enacted in 1996 which states that only marriages that are between a man and a woman can be federally recognized ...
  • He voted for the Patriot Act, but...  .
  • .. voted for the Iraq Resolution in 2002 but ...
  • ... proposed that the Pentagon ban the practice of Wicca in the military....
  • In 1999, during the impeachment trial of President Bill Clinton, Hustler magazine publisher Larry Flynt offered money to anyone who could provide evidence that a prominent Republican had engaged in an extramarital affair. According to the American Journalism Review, "Barr was one of 13 House Republicans chosen to act as prosecutors in Clinton's Senate trial. Barr, Flynt's investigators found, "was guilty of king-size hypocrisy": An outspoken foe of abortion, the Georgia lawmaker had acquiesced to his then-wife having an abortion in 1983.[9] And he had invoked a legal privilege during his 1985 divorce proceeding so he could refuse to answer questions on whether he'd cheated on his second wife with the woman who is now his third.
A real libertarian politician.  Guns, (God -- note the parentheses), and Gold.  You hit on those, and you wear a brown shirt and still be a libertarian.

I like that...  yup, it's a new catchphrase for them: the brownshirt libertarians.  Less government for straight Judeo-Christian men who tote guns and drink liquor.



(Edited by Michael E. Marotta on 5/26, 10:23am)




Post 5

Monday, May 26 - 10:30amSanction this postReply
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Hefalumps and Woozles!

What are you so worried about, Michael. You said you could live with "ambiguity." Maybe Barr is, maybe he isn't. You know how to get along in any circumstances.. Oh, and I did advise people when the convention was live. Trying to find the video now is like locking the barn after the bear got in, no?





Post 6

Monday, May 26 - 4:23pmSanction this postReply
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get real, Marotta. What if I went back and found out what your positions were prior to becoming an anarchist? Would you consider that a fair assessment of your current political beliefs?

Of course not. You're being intellectually dishonest. I don't know what investment you have in pulling a hit job on Bob Barr, but I suggest you get over it and stop embarrassing yourself.



Post 7

Monday, May 26 - 5:34pmSanction this postReply
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Actually, Steven, Mr. Barr's recent hemming & hawing on Fox News and elsewhere about his miraculous change of opinion show that he really is a politician and not a principled libertarian. Nevertheless, why this should bother Michael "I have no problem with ambiguity" Marotta evades me.



Post 8

Monday, May 26 - 10:13pmSanction this postReply
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Steve Druckmiller, do you believe that Bob Barr had a genuine 180-degree rearrangement of his political beliefs at age 55? 

I started writing for libertarian publications in 1971 and for the mainstream computer periodicals in 1988.  Feel free to ask me anything you want. 

On a forum like this, we float ideas. At least I do.  (Other people demand that everyone agree with their rocksolid appraisal of everything all at once.)  That is not the same thing as introducing a bill as a Congressman.  Legislation is not speculation.  But, as did Ted Kerr, ask me anything you want.  Better still, ask Bob Barr to explain his sudden awakening.  

Jim Henshaw claimed that Mary Ruwart and Bob Barr are in 90% agreement.  I met Rurwart about 15 years ago.  Having read her first book, Healing Our World, I would say that they are in 90% disagreement.  She is a libertarian.  He is a conservative.  I offer only as coincidence that at that time, Dr. Ruwart lived on Hawk Drive, while the state LP chair lived on (no kidding) Marter Lane.

Ted Kerr referred to C. Jeffrey Small's puzzlement over my views on smoking.  Am I in favor of it?  Am I in favor of government controls?  He did not know where I stand on the issues.  I replied that most things are like chandellier crystals, multifaceted.  I have no problem with ambiguity, I said, pointing to Penn & Teller's burning (or vanishing?) an American flag. 

Bob Barr is not being ambiguous.  He has not said that the problems surrounding abortion are complex.  He is against legal abortions.  He has not said that the depth and breadth of human relationships have brought a challenge to the laws.  He is against legal recognition of same-sex couples.  Again, these were not theoretical essays on GOP blogsites, these were laws he made. 
 
His 180 on marijuana is actually easier to explain (or explain away).  Other lawmakers have come to the same realizations.  However, it is painfully obvious that on the Patriot Act and the Iraq Resolution he went with the flow when he voted for them and he is going with the flow in saying he wish he had not.

Perhaps the LP should have tapped the Republican who defeated Barr in the 2002 primary, John Linder.
Linder has also taken a leadership role in the effort to enact fundamental tax reform. His legislation, the Fair Tax Act (H.R.25), is a proposal for changing United States tax laws to replace all federal personal income taxes, payroll taxes, corporate taxes, capital gains taxes, self-employment taxes, gift taxes and inheritance taxes with a national retail sales tax and monthly tax prebate to households of citizens and legal resident aliens.  In 2006, he voted against renewal of the Voting Rights Act.




Post 9

Tuesday, May 27 - 12:32amSanction this postReply
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Michael, it's "Keer" rhymes with "beer."
I don't call you Micheal Marrota,
and I don't misquote ya.
Use "Ted" if it's easier.
I enjoy you when you're
right and when you're
wrong and figure
we can
both take it like a man.
But I stop reading posts once I see you err
and call me "Kerr."

Ted



Post 10

Tuesday, May 27 - 2:27amSanction this postReply
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Michael -- since Barr has zero chance of becoming president, we'll soon see whether he talks like a libertarian on the campaign trail or not. It's pretty much irrelevant what he would do in office, so all that matters is whether he gets audiences and then puts out libertarian ideals.

If he doesn't, well, he can join the nearly unbroken string of LP candidates who didn't do much to advance freedom.



Post 11

Tuesday, May 27 - 11:53amSanction this postReply
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I watched some of the LP convention on C-SPAN. I found it quite rich to hear some people passionately arguing against Barr, saying he wasn't a real libertarian, and then in the same breath praising Ron Paul. I remember 1987 - I was on the board of my local LP at the time. The same things were being said about Ron Paul.



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Post 12

Tuesday, May 27 - 7:08pmSanction this postReply
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Merry Christmas, Obama

The issue of opportunism is crucial. Look at Michael Bloomberg's election as a "Giuliani" Republican. Giuliani reigned in and even cut spending and taxes in certain cases. Bloomberg's first acts as mayor were to raise property taxes 30% and to ban smoking just about everywhere, although he pledged not to raise taxes and never once even mentioned the "issue" of smoking during his campaign. Bloomberg finally quit the party for which he had never fought and declared himself an "independent" - although liberal fascist might be a better identification.

Barr's libertarianism is a hoot, if not an embarrassment. If his performance on Fox News is a sign of how he'll campaign, it's an ill omen. Even if he did win, and he won't, he would be a huge disappointment to registered Libertarians. What he might do, if anything, is draw votes away from McCain. No potential democratic voter is going to take him as a third option. Barr will be a media darling. He'll draw away Republican votes. He'll probably paradoxically draw the largest vote ever for the Libertarian Party while alienating a hue number of registered Libertarians. What a gift this is for the Democrats.

I don't particularly identify with the Libertarian party, although I almost always vote third-party. (No point in voting Republican in my congressional district.) I'll support McCain morally, but only because I cannot stomach the idea of a Democratic Congress and White House. Barr does have his good points so far as I'm concerned as a hawk and an advocate of fiscal conservatism.

They say there's no such thing as bad publicity. Maybe not for the Democrats.

(Edited by Ted Keer on 5/27, 7:09pm)




Post 13

Tuesday, May 27 - 11:12pmSanction this postReply
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The case against a libertarian political party
by Erwin S Strauss
Edition: Unknown Binding
Availability: Currently unavailable

 
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful:
5.0 out of 5 stars An Early Sociological Analysis of the Libertarian Party, January 2, 2008
Strauss's study on the sociology of the Libertarian Party was a pioneering work and many of his findings remain relevant today. The introduction by Michael Hoy is an excellent participant observation account of the Michigan Libertarian Party. Libertarianism is a significant sociological phenomenon in the United States, which is often at odds with the Libertarian Party. Strauss's study shows why. He explains that "Party" libertarians are of three basic types and shows how the sociological relationships between these various types sometimes culminate in some very unlibertarian, and at times comical, behavior. As an insider's account, it is quite valuable. It is also an example of some of the advantages of participant observation as a research method.
http://www.amazon.com/case-against-libertarian-political-party/dp/B0006E2CLA

The Case Against a Libertarian Political Party; Loompanics; 1980 (philosophical contradictions in the concept of a libertarian political party, and war stories of run-ins with the Libertarian Party).
http://www.iconsf.org/archive/icon26/fandom_esstrauss.php

Libertarianism is no longer the Loompanics reference point it once was. The Case Against a Libertarian Political Party wasn't reprinted, acccording to Loompanics editor Steve O'Keefe, probably because there are not many libertarians left who need convincing.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/writers/black/sp001672.html




Post 14

Sunday, June 29 - 9:20pmSanction this postReply
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"I'm  talking about Bob Barr, at that time the U.S. attorney for the Northern District of Georgia...  In my book, Barr was the absolute worst.  In his desperate bid for publicity, he made my job extremely difficult by leaking information to the press almost constantly.
"It was widely known that Barr had a favorite reporter with whom he collaborated on articles, Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter Gail Epstein.  ...  I can't tell you how frustrating it was to have confidential information about cases show up on the front page.  Not only was it embarrassing, it impeded our work.
Kennedy, Weldon, On Scene Commander: From Street Agent to Deputy Director of the FBI, Washington D.C., Potomac Books, 2007.




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