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Post 0

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 10:45amSanction this postReply
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And thus the seed of Rand layeth uncovered; laid bare--for all to see.

"Holy proto-objectivist, Batman!"



Post 1

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
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Someone here must be passing around quotes from Confucius!!!

Just remember, Confucius is also an idol of the sick yellow commies!!!

Next someone will be calling Buddha a proto-objectivist!!!





Post 2

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 12:54pmSanction this postReply
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Just remember, Confucius is also an idol of the sick yellow commies!!!
Marcus, you are wrong here. Most of Confucius's teachings were very reactionary, even for 2500 years ago. His idols had been smashed many times by Chinese Communists. 




Post 3

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 3:07pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

Then why did they quote Confucius in that article from the "People's Daily" that I quoted on SOLO science?

Exerting a profound influence on Chinese culture for thousands of years, Confucius' doctrine of the Golden Mean promotes a humble, calm way of life. Thus formed the Chinese people's unique psychological quality of disliking self-publicity.

Anyway, not being an expert on the CCP myself, I apologize if I have got it wrong.




Post 4

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 3:10pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

I agree with you. Some of Lao Tzu and Confucius's work can sometimes be seen as Libertarian. If anyone would like to see how these two and Budda can sometimes be related to Aristotle, they should take a look at the work of Archie Bahm. Buddhism itself has become more mystical throughout the ages then it originally was. Same with Lao Tzu. There is also another book by Stephen Clark called "Aristotle's Man" that shows some of this, but I haven't read it.



Post 5

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 4:13pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus,
This maybe a bit complicated. My experience with CCP was from 16 years ago. As CCP has since loosen up the grip on people's daily life, the traditional Chinese values (Confucianism, Taoism, etc.) prevail. CCP has always been very unprincipled - whatever help them to hold on their power, they'll take it. I think that particular crappy People's Daily article is just such a piece.

Shane,
I agree Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching  has a lot of Libertarian flavor in it. But Confucuis? Hardly so. I haven't read any of the Western Scholar's work on these topics and is ignorant of any parallel with Aristotle, except that a lot of Confucius teachings were recorded by his students in a conversational format, and so was Aristotle!




Post 6

Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 4:21pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus wrote,

Exerting a profound influence on Chinese culture for thousands of years, Confucius' doctrine of the Golden Mean promotes a humble, calm way of life. Thus formed the Chinese people's unique psychological quality of disliking self-publicity.


I agree with this also. Taoism, Confucianism and Buddhism seemed to have more embraced the passive. What Nietzsche called nihilistic. A turning away from oneself and life rather than embracing oneself and life. While there is some similarities between these forms of thought and Aristotle's golden mean, they are not quite the same. They can almost be seen as more Christian in what they produce, Aristotle does not look at pity or humility as virtues.

In many ways, by being more rationalistic and passive, Taoism and Buddhism can be seen as embracing the opposite of the golden mean of Aristotle. Nietzsche on the other hand, can be seen to be on the otherside of the extreme, being more empiricist and emotive. While Aristotle is in between on the golden mean, embracing all, by rejecting the two dichotomies.

(Edited by shane hurren on 3/22, 5:51pm)




Post 7

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 12:30amSanction this postReply
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To all the would-be hair-splitting social-metaphysicians ... this quote has objective merit!

Geez, it's okay to integrate truth when you find it! The original "person" who spoke that truth (in this case, Confucius) may not have properly integrated it--but that is NO REASON not to take it, use it, and improve on it.

Think about this quote for a minute. Think about it being applied to some recent, relevant political scandal or something (you pick the current political tragedy)--and you will, at once, see its wisdom and potentiality for beneficence.

Detractors of this quote would seem to be merely throwing out a baby (a real value) with some dirty bathwater (the originator's persona/world-view).

Damn, I find this sucker to be one of the best quotes I've posted (and I've posted several).

Ed





Post 8

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 1:12amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

What I was disputing was your reference to Confucius being a "proto-objectivist".




Post 9

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:52amSanction this postReply
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Marcus,

Okay ... alright ... I admit that I was over the top with that one--but I was just trying to have a little fun and flair with the thing; "tongue-in-cheek" style (and so I got riled when I was raked over the coals).

No harm, no foul.
Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson
on 3/23, 8:54am)




Post 10

Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 9:14amSanction this postReply
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Ed,
I was also over the top. Of course I found many succinct words in Confucius's teachings very profound and insightful regarding the basic human nature.

In early 70s when I was still in elementary school, we were all forced to participate in the "Criticizicing Confucianism" movement under CCP. I should have specified that I found Confucuis's views on the stiff social and family orders, woman's (non)-rights, repression of self-interest, and resorting to the old ways, very reactionary, even in ancient times.

On the other hand, I can almost swallow Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching as a whole, disregard the later mystical components of Taoism.




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