About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
This brings to mind two concepts: proselytizing and irrationality.  I think we can laugh about both, deride and argue against the latter, but have to permit the former in order to accomplish our own goals.



Post 1

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 2:49pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I don't want to spoil the fun, but I know a lot of recovering alcoholics, a lot of people who've been to rehab, I've had a pretty good look at AA culture, and this joke to me is just dumb.  Most recovering alcoholics I've known never asked anyone to buy them drinks--the ones I've known were successful people, like doctors and dentists, and Stephen King (okay I don't know him, but he is a recovering alcoholic and he wrote about it in his book On Writing), who could afford their own drinks.  The recovering alcoholics I've known and hung out with have never seemed to make a big point of telling people how much happier they are now; if anything they've usually been honest about the problems they still do have--they have usually conveyed a "one day at a time" attitude which openly admits that life and recovery are difficult processes.  I have known some alcoholics well enough that some have on occasion told me how much happier they are now that they quit drinking, and frankly it's quite touching.  Some recovering alcoholics I've known don't necessarily believe in God; the ones I've known who do believe in God, usually wouldn't say it was finding God that saved them, it was hitting rock bottom and deciding to quit drinking and go to AA that saved them; they probably believed in God for most of their lives and would admit that that alone hadn't been enough to keep them from drinking.  AA isn't some place where everyone finds God and gets all happy; it's a place where alcoholics do the tough things they've gotta do to help themselves and each other quit drinking.  And I've never known any recovering alcoholic who was dumb enough to think that "looking forward" to a drink is a sign of alcoholism.  If drinking is really screwing up your life, and you're still doing it anyway, that's a sign of alcoholism.

It seems to me that the only way you could think this joke is funny is if you have no idea of what recovery culture and people in recovery are really like.  I get the impression that a lot of people on this site have no idea about this subject and they think the whole thing is some contemptible joke.  It's too bad, because I think that means a lot of people around here have no idea where James Kilbourne was coming from when he submitted that article.

I recommend checking out On Writing, the parts that deal with Stephen King's alcoholism, to get an honest account of what it's like to be an alcoholic.  Stephen King says that when he was drinking, before he went to bed he used to have go to the kitchen and pour out whatever alcohol was remaining in the refrigerator, because he knew that if he didn't he would end up drinking it all before he fell asleep.  Alcoholism is a real thing that destroys some people's lives.  It would be an unbelievable understatement to say that for the alcoholics I've known, I've liked them much better once they were in recovery.




Post 2

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 5:09pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
It is a touchy topic for sure. There is some truth in the Wayne quote. There is a lot of posturing, bubblegum psychology, and memes.

There is definitely a unique subculture in recovery, but from my experiences, it as very far removed from reality.

(Edited by Joseph Rowlands on 1/11, 11:11pm)




Post 3

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 5:46pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Pssst-Daniel- it was a joke!



Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 8:40pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
As one who went through both alcoholism and heavy drug addiction, I can still laugh at this quote.

I kinda like the term shitaholic. It is a bit graphic, but metaphorically it describes quite a few people I know. LOLOLOL...

Daniel, you are correct that most who have not been there - or who have had the endlessly frustrating experience of seeing a loved one get zonked and making a humongous mess of his/her life time after time after time - really don't have a clue as to how serious and difficult all this is.

But that's the world - that's the way it is. Frankly, I vastly prefer their ignorance to having them know through personal experience what I do.

Coming out of this problem is an extremely emotional time for all involved. Many of the emotions are jumbled for all involved and they cover the full spectrum of what human beings are capable of feeling, at least to some degree.

I intend to write an article on this. In the meantime - let's laugh. Let's bait shitaholics. Let's be really good to ourselves and each other. (Let's even try to reconcile misunderstandings.)

Eat, drink (if you can - I can't) and be merry, for tomorrow we die.

Also, endeavor to produce something worthwhile. That's the greatest high there is.

(Erggggghhh... there I go preaching... Shit, AA and NA pop into my head and off I go preaching... Dayaamm!)

Michael




Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 5

Friday, August 19, 2005 - 11:07pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Linz Health Warning–The worst thing to be addicted to is misery. Misery is very, very bad for one's health. The surest sign of addiction to misery is inability to laugh at addiction jokes.

Linz



Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 10, No Sanction: 0
Post 6

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 2:36amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Lindsay, recently a pattern has become all too clear--you're addicted to addiction jokes.  This is an intervention.



Post 7

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 2:45amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hahahahaha! That's more like it. I was about to write you off as a recruit to the Brandbourne school of anal-retentiveness. Saved by a great riposte, in the nick of time. Hahahaha!

Linz



Post 8

Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 5:23amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
At first the idea of you making fun of me was so scary that I considered leaving Solo.  But then I looked deep within me and somehow found the courage to make a comeback.



Post to this thread
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.