About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unreadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page


Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 9, No Sanction: 0
Post 0

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 11:08amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I like the quote. Very much in line with Cognitive Therapy. They often reframe thinking that appear to be generating self-defeating behavior or unnecessary negative emotions. I could see a cognitive therapist saying this to a client when they showed a pattern of behavior that was either overly focused on 'things never work' or 'things are out of my control'.

Here are a list of 12 Self-defeating Beliefs I copied off a Cognitive therapy web site:

1. I need love and approval from others - and I must avoid disapproval from any source.
2. To be worthwhile as a person I must achieve, succeed at what ever I do, and make no mistakes.
3. Others should always do the right thing. When they behave obnoxiously, unfairly or selfishly, they must be blamed and punished.
4. Things must be the way I want them to be - otherwise life will be intolerable.
5. My unhappiness is caused by things outside my control - so there is little I can do to feel any better.
6. I must worry about things that could be dangerous, unpleasant or frightening - otherwise they might happen.
7. I can be happier by avoiding life's difficulties, unpleasantness, and responsibilities.
8. Everyone needs to depend on someone stronger than themselves.
9. Events in my past are the cause of my problems - and they continue to influence my feelings and behaviours now.
10. I should become upset when other people have problems and feel unhappy when they're sad.
11. I should not have to feel discomfort and pain - I can't stand them and must avoid them at all costs.
12. Every problem should have an ideal solution, and it is intolerable when one can't be found.

The therapist would be looking for examples of these and then bringing them to the clients attention - often with reframing as a technique.

p.s., Although there is some good stuff in the cognitive approach, it is limited. Branden was doing something similar in his twenties and then went way beyond it. He used to debate Albert Ellis who was a founder of the Cognitive approach. I only spoke with Ellis once, at a conference, and found him to be an unhappy, and somewhat mean-spirited little man. Maybe he was just having a bad day.



Post 1

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 4:04pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
I like Ellis. His theories seem more sensible than Branden's. Interestingly enough, he was still keeping some regular office hours back in 2002, 2003, or 2004. I know this because I actually called his office. He was actually born in 1913. If a guy can still maintain office hours at that age, he must be doing something right.

Apparently, he was later fired from this job in 2005.

However, I have found the ideas of neuro-linguistic programming to be much more effective than any other self-help I have studied. I am currently doing Master Practitioner training. I don't even like to call NLP self-help, since so much of what is called self-help is totally useless.

For me, both Ellis and NLP are much more useful than anything that Branden has ever produced. And an acting class here in Austin is the best therapy I've ever had.




Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Post 2

Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 6:29pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Ellis believes that any philosophy that holds absolute moral or ethical positions is unhealthy by its nature.

For Ellis "rational" is divorced from philosophy - he just gives it a meaning that 'works' for psychology.

The core of his theory is A-B-C, which is A=Activating event, B=Evaluation/Response, and C=Consequence (usually negative thoughts or feelings). Too simple for me.

His theory applies Roger's unconditional self-acceptance in a way that calls for not doing much judging of others 'because we all do both good and bad'.

Ellis believes that feelings of self-worth shouldn't be taken seriously.

Back in the days when Branden was in New York he had more than one debate with Ellis.

NLP arose out of the philosphical roots of Lingusitics and systems theory. They hold that all experiences are subjective and further that man can not have any objective knowledge of reality.

NLP adherents are bad about taking ideas from others, giving no credit, and mixing together the worst grab-bag of new age ideas. It just has no coherent philosophy of psychology. Except for when they are using language to effect clincal change, their use of language is sloppy.

What NLP does have are some good techniques.

The theories and philosophical foundations of both NLP and Cognitive therapy contradict the principles of Objectivism. But both of them have many acceptable and valuable tools, techniques, and individual insights.

Branden's psychology is fully compatible with Objectivism - it one of the very few, maybe only consistent and fundamental philosophies of psychology. Branden see a person as capable of heroic achievements whereas Ellis and NLP approach people as programmable automata.

But I don't want to discourage you. If you are finding NLP useful - use it.



Post 3

Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:35amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit

NLP arose out of the philosphical roots of Lingusitics and systems theory. They hold that all experiences are subjective and further that man can not have any objective knowledge of reality.
Where did you come up with this? I haven't heard anyone say this.
NLP adherents are bad about taking ideas from others, giving no credit, and mixing together the worst grab-bag of new age ideas. It just has no coherent philosophy of psychology. Except for when they are using language to effect clincal change, their use of language is sloppy.
Plenty of people (including Objectivists) take ideas from others. What are some of the "worse" "new age ideas"? Some people in the NLP community, such as Ross Jeffries, despise new age thinking.

What is your evidence of sloppy language use? NLP is all about using language to effect change. It's about how you talk to people. It's about the words you use. I think perhaps you have just met some of the bad apples in the NLP community, but they are a minority.
What NLP does have are some good techniques.
That is exactly what it does. It has techniques that help you get what you want out of life. While Branden just tells you to "have self-esteem," NLP actually gives you techniques for gettting it.

A lot of self-help is total crap. It tries to help you decide what you want. It tries to teach you to be happy with what you have. NLP actually helps get things that you do want. It doesn't help you define goals, but actually helps you reach them. It helps you move from a state of dissatisfaction to a state of satisfaction.
The theories and philosophical foundations of both NLP and Cognitive therapy contradict the principles of Objectivism. But both of them have many acceptable and valuable tools, techniques, and individual insights.
I've come to the conclusion that a lot of pyschological stuff in Objectivism is a complete disaster. NLP has helped me. Objectivism definitely has not. I have also gotten much more support from people in the NLP community that I have in the Objectivist community.

I should note that I have only read one Branden book, Six Pillars of Self-Esteem. I haven't read any more of his books because I thought so little of it. I have also read his articles that appeared in the newsletters.
Branden's psychology is fully compatible with Objectivism - it one of the very few, maybe only consistent and fundamental philosophies of psychology.
But there is this problem called the scientific method. If you try Branden, it fails. If something fails, I don't use it. If it works, it does.
Branden see a person as capable of heroic achievements whereas Ellis and NLP approach people as programmable automata.
Branden may believe that, but he doesn't give you any tools for accomplishing anything heroic. NLP does see you as "programmable." It also teaches you how to program yourself.

For example, Branden could never teach you how to use hypnosis to relieve allergies. NLP does. Branden could never teach you how to cure phobias. NLP does.

Furthermore, Branden could never produce something as useful as some of the courses and materials produced by Ross Jeffries and Vince Kelvin. I'm going to meet both of them at a conference in Dallas this weekend!

 




Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 20, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:16pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Chris,

You clearly have very strong feeling about NLP.

The two people you listed in your post above have no standing in the field of psychology. They run those sleazy seduction seminars that promise to teach men how to secretly hypnotize women into having sex. I wouldn't even associate with people like that much less give them money.

You said you wanted to know where my knowledge comes from. My understanding of psychology is from a Masters in Clinical Psychology, decades of studying, 3000 hours of supervised clinical practice, over a decade of private practice, many professional seminars and conferences, experiencing therapy as a client under a number of different schools and practitioners, studying films of great therapists at work, as well as private conversations with some very knowledgeable psychologists. Add to that working as an apprentice to Branden for about a year and a half while getting my license.

You said, "If you try Branden, it fails". That's nonsense. I've seen his work, first hand, as a student, as a client, as a colleague and I don't know of any other therapist as skilled or effective as he is. I don’t know of any other therapist who has trained with him or watched him work that wasn’t impressed. Why you would want to libel him like that is beyond me.

You said Branden doesn't give you any tools, which is just wrong - Sentence stems are one of the most powerful tools around and he invented them. He uses a very wide variety of techniques drawn from many different theories. And he starts from solid premises.

You said Branden could never teach hypnosis. Wrong, he has been doing hypnosis since the fifties. He studied under Milton Ericson (the real "father" of NLP's language use).

You said that Branden could never teach someone how to cure phobias. I’m amazed that you say things like that while knowing so little. He works with phobias on a regular basis.

Also, you said something about Objectivist psychology… There is no Objectivist psychology.

I see no value in discussing this any further.




Post 5

Thursday, February 8, 2007 - 9:08amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
You clearly have very strong feeling about NLP.
Almost from the beginning, I had a feeling of: "I was blind, but now I see." The last time I felt that way was when I picked up a book called Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.
The two people you listed in your post above have no standing in the field of psychology.
So what? This sounds like social metaphysics. And Vince Kelvin actually has won awards for his work.
They run those sleazy seduction seminars that promise to teach men how to secretly hypnotize women into having sex. I wouldn't even associate with people like that much less give them money.
I have already given them my money, and it's money well spent. Many men (myself included) also say that other areas of their lives improved as a result of learning these seduction skills. Sex is such a basic and important part of life and health that it effects everything else. These guys are doing men a lot of good. Ross has said that he may do a course for women. Vince is married now.

What is your current status anyway? Married? Single?
You said you wanted to know where my knowledge comes from.
I do. Your views on NLP seem to indicate that your exposure to it is either limited or quite biased.

Much like religion, a great deal of what passes for psychology has failed miserably at the task of bringing people more happiness in their lives. We in the NLP community often talk about how psychology is threatened by it. It's easy to understand their reasons for wanting to discredit it. Failure despises success.
That's nonsense. I've seen his work, first hand, as a student, as a client, as a colleague and I don't know of any other therapist as skilled or effective as he is.
I haven't seen him in action. Perhaps I would feel differently if I had. I have met him and have read two of his books. I am not too impressed so far. Six Pillars sucked--perhaps you could recommend a better book.
He uses a very wide variety of techniques drawn from many different theories. And he starts from solid premises.
What are these techniques? Are they effective?
You said Branden could never teach hypnosis. Wrong, he has been doing hypnosis since the fifties. He studied under Milton Ericson (the real "father" of NLP's language use).
He never mentions it anywhere in the writings I have written. He also never mentions Erickson in any of the writings I have read. You certainly don't have to explain to me who Milton Erickson was.
He works with phobias on a regular basis.
How effective is it?

You have actually raised Branden quite a bit by telling me that he has worked with Erickson. I'm curious to know what he thought of him.


 




Sanction: 26, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 26, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 26, No Sanction: 0
Post 6

Thursday, February 8, 2007 - 3:04pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Chris,

I'm not going to talk about NLP anymore. I like the techniques (NOT the applications employed in the "seduction community"), you don't want to hear anything negative about any aspect of NLP and neither of us would benefit from arguing over it.

If you didn't like Branden's Six Pillars book, you aren't likely to get excited about his other works. I just wanted to correct the things you said about him that were wrong.

As for those two people that using NLP techniques to seduce women. That is so sleazy. I'm sorry to see them drag NLP's already tattered name through that mud.

The Wikipedia article you linked to says, "Another Jeffries device is phonetic ambiguity. Sentence example: 'Standing on the hill, I could see the river twinkling below me.' According to Jeffries, the words "below me" could be unconsciously interpreted as an embedded command to 'blow me'."

I had no idea there was an entire 'community' out there doing this stuff - and people competing with each other to be the latest 'seduction guru'. It is hard to even know where to start with something this awful.

1) If it were possible for a man to hypnotise some poor woman into having sex with him when she would otherwise not have - then it is just like using Rohypnol or some other date-rape 'hypnotic' drug. Her capacity to rationally consent would have been bypassed without her knowledge just as in fraud.

2) If it were that effective (and there is NO way it is), it would just be a form of rape.

3) If it doesn't work then what you have is a sleazy snake oil salesman taking money from grown men who live in the emotional world of a frightened adolescent. Men, who out of fear of rejection would rather entertain fantasies of screwing women bound by a trance than to own up to their social insecurities.

4) The men have to be seriously short on self-esteem to want women that wouldn't have them without being under hypnosis. They have to have a really low opinion of themselves to think they can't get women without massive trickery.

5) Unless they hate women and love the idea of tricking them, they should just get a rubber doll since none of this could lead to a decent relationship - and what rational person would want their social interactions to stay at this stage?

6) There are some people some who hunger for power over others and it would be a real fantasy to be able to hypnotise secretly and go through life getting what they wanted (unearned) - but it doesn't matter if what they want is sex, money, love, or safety - getting it this way is a fantasy.

7) The only woman that would be "gotten" with these silly techniques aren't being fooled - they are going along with the progression because their grasp of what a decent social contact is also severely lacking, their self-esteem is dragging bottom and they are desperately lonely.

8) Single women know some things most men don't. They know that however small their risk when they head out on the town includes stranger rape, date rape, or getting beaten. Men's biggest fear is being rejected! They know that barring violence or secret drugging, they will have decided if they are going to let the man get lucky way before he even has a clue. They keep part of themselves on guard and won't fall for such simple minded foolishness.



Post 7

Thursday, February 8, 2007 - 4:17pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Steve,

I will say that I've gotten an enormous amount of value out of The Six Pillars of Self Esteem and The Psychology of Romantic Love. They are important literature for people seeking to increase their self-awareness. I've gotten some value out of NLP, mostly through thinking about dominant sensory input modes and timeline awareness, but I am leery of a lot of it.

Jim




Post 8

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 7:00amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Excellent points, Steve.  This was discussed here before you came on board.  Your comments are right on and very welcome.



Post 9

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 9:14amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Steve,

It is very refreshing to read your posts. I am more than a strong Nathaniel Branden admirer and I am very intrigued that you studied under NB. I would like to hear more about this if that is not imposing. (If it is, just skip it. Still, I had to ask.)

About your comments, I understand you to be saying that in rational hands, psychology is a tool for healing and understanding. It is not a set of rules and techniques for controlling others without exposing oneself.

I could not agree more.

Come to think of it, the same almost could be said about philosophy...

Michael



Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 15, No Sanction: 0
Post 10

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 11:07amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hi Michael,

You said, “I understand you to be saying that in rational hands, psychology is a tool for healing and understanding. It is not a set of rules and techniques for controlling others without exposing oneself.”

Yes, and as you so astutely noted: the same could be said for philosophy. Despite my background as a therapist, my natural inclination is to see psychology as something everyone should understand for their own practice. Kind of a "Psychology: Who needs it"

Rand, describing the need for philosophy, says, "[Man] needs it by his essential nature and for a practical purpose: in order to be able to think, to act and to live." At the same time, and for the same reasons we need psychology. The difference being "...to think clearly, to act effectively, and to live joyously."

(I emailed you the fairly lengthy info on my work with Branden)





Post 11

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 11:55amSanction this postReply
Link
Edit

The difference being "...to think clearly, to act effectively, and to live joyously."

Reminds me of Barbara Branden's Principles of Efficient Thinking....
an excellent  series to listen to.....




Post 12

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 12:29pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
NLP = JMT:

These droids aren't the ones you're looking for.

"These droids aren't the ones we're looking for."

Move along.

"Move along."

;-)



Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 4, No Sanction: 0
Post 13

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 12:47pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Steve,

=====================
The theories and philosophical foundations of both NLP and Cognitive therapy contradict the principles of Objectivism.
=====================

I find that the humanistic approach to psychology DOESN'T contradict the principles of Objectivism -- but, rather, integrates well with it.

Here's some evidence of THAT (caps added for emphasis) ...

===============
HUMANISTIC PSYCHOLOGY OVERVIEW

Throughout history many individuals and groups have affirmed the inherent VALUE AND DIGNITY OF HUMAN BEINGS. They have spoken out against ideologies, beliefs and practices which held people TO BE MERELY THE MEANS for accomplishing economic and political ends. They have reminded their contemporaries that the purpose of institutions is to serve and advance the FREEDOM AND POWER OF THEIR MEMBERS. In Western civilization we honor the times and places, such as Classical Greece and Europe of the Renaissance, when such affirmations were expressed.

Humanistic Psychology is a contemporary manifestation of that ongoing commitment. Its message is a response to the DENIGRATION OF THE HUMAN SPIRIT that has so often been implied in the image of the person drawn BY BEHAVIORAL AND SOCIAL SCIENCES.

During the first half of the twentieth century, American psychology was dominated by two schools of thought: behaviorism and psychoanalysis. Neither fully acknowledged the possibility of studying VALUES, intentions and meaning as elements in conscious existence. Although various European perspectives such as phenomenology had some limited influence, on the whole mainstream American psychology had been captured by the MECHANISTIC BELIEFS OF BEHAVIORISM and by the BIOLOGICAL REDUCTIONISM AND DETERMINISM OF CLASSICAL PSYCHOANALYSIS.
===============
From:
http://www.ahpweb.org/aboutahp/whatis.html

Ed



Post 14

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvtNF20Dw_o&mode=related&search

This is the first of a five part interview with Ross Jeffries. It sums up his work nicely.
I'm not going to talk about NLP anymore. I like the techniques (NOT the applications employed in the "seduction community"), you don't want to hear anything negative about any aspect of NLP and neither of us would benefit from arguing over it.
You could benefit from it. But I don't think you have an open mind about it. Some of us students of Ross Jeffries can be kind of snobby about it, but I do think some people just aren't ready for this kind of success in life. Your profile seems to indicate that you have never been married. If you don't want to get out of your comfort zone, that is your prerogative.
As for those two people that using NLP techniques to seduce women. That is so sleazy. I'm sorry to see them drag NLP's already tattered name through that mud.
Just like therapy, it's about giving people mind-blowing experiences, ones that they didn't deem possible. If you think it's sleazy, I personally don't care. But what do you advocate instead? Who has tattered NLP's name?
It is hard to even know where to start with something this awful.
Some people stay at home and read the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Others get out and live life.
1) If it were possible for a man to hypnotise some poor woman into having sex with him when she would otherwise not have - then it is just like using Rohypnol or some other date-rape 'hypnotic' drug. Her capacity to rationally consent would have been bypassed without her knowledge just as in fraud.
Actually most women don't use reason when they make decisions about whom they go to bed with. How many women have you reasoned into bed or reasoned into relationships?
2) If it were that effective (and there is NO way it is), it would just be a form of rape.
I know this stuff is effective. It has worked wonders. Most men are shocked by how well it works. Lots of them don't believe it can. What is your strategy?
3) If it doesn't work then what you have is a sleazy snake oil salesman taking money from grown men who live in the emotional world of a frightened adolescent. Men, who out of fear of rejection would rather entertain fantasies of screwing women bound by a trance than to own up to their social insecurities.
Some live life. Some are just spectators.
4) The men have to be seriously short on self-esteem to want women that wouldn't have them without being under hypnosis. They have to have a really low opinion of themselves to think they can't get women without massive trickery.
You don't know anything about these men. Some of them have high opinions of themselves, as most women are confidence fetishists. Many of them do have high opinions of women. This comes from creating positive experiences.
5) Unless they hate women and love the idea of tricking them, they should just get a rubber doll since none of this could lead to a decent relationship - and what rational person would want their social interactions to stay at this stage?
What is your strategy? How does it work for you?
7) The only woman that would be "gotten" with these silly techniques aren't being fooled - they are going along with the progression because their grasp of what a decent social contact is also severely lacking, their self-esteem is dragging bottom and they are desperately lonely.
This is just plain funny. These guys don't want women who will end up stalking them. They go after attractive women who often are quite happy with their lives.
8) Single women know some things most men don't.
Indeed they do. But some men are figuring it out. What are you afraid of? How does criticizing such people serve you?




Post 15

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 1:00pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Here's a cool essay on how humanism is consonant with objective philosophy ...

=============================
About 10 years ago, there was a movement called Philosophical Counseling. It was led by Lou Marinoff, who published a book called; Plato Not Prozac. Philosophical Counseling basically uses philosophy and reason to help people work through their issues instead of traditional psychology or psychiatry.

Is this the philosopher’s purview? Should philosophers be mixing it up where psychologists have ruled or should they mind their own business and go back to contemplating dreamy thoughts of ideas that live in esoterica?

It’s interesting to consider. Since the “ologies” came from the big “osophy,” is Philosophy just the big brother coming back in and trying to take over?
=============================
From:
http://www.modernhumanist.com/?p=47

Ed



Post 16

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 1:05pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Perhaps the best place to explore the humanistic approach to psychology ...

===================
Humanism is:

...

"That which is characteristically human, not supernatural, that which belongs to man and not to external nature, that which raises man to his greatest height or gives him, as man, his greatest satisfaction." Encyclopedia of the Social Sciences
===================
From:
http://humaniststudies.org/humphil.html

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson
on 2/09, 1:06pm)




Post 17

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 2:28pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Hi Ed,

I like that essay on Humanistic Psychology’s Overview. Thanks.

The article did a good job of separating out the three main schools of thought at that time (Psychodynamic, Behavioral, and Humanistic). But there are others that have come along since. I’d create some new categories: Communications theory based, Systems theory based, and New Age.

The Communications theory based psychologies were influenced by the various post-modern philosophical schools, like, Structuralism and Linguistics. For them the main thrust is the language. Because of the complexity of the relationship between aspects of the subconscious and consciousness and the importance of language to thought, these schools of psychology may not have a good philosophical base but they have generated some excellent tools. Lots of guided imagery, metaphor work, language changes to break out of old ruts, hypnosis, etc. NLP is in this category, so is Narrative therapy. They have lots of good tools but that’s all.

Systems theory kicked off in the fifties and was more a parallel of engineering. It included things like Cybernetics. It found a home in sociology as well as some different psychology theories (like Family Systems Therapy, Strategic Therapy). Some times they would overlap with the communications theory psychologies. They had some excellent insights that made it possible to see where work with a family would fail if it wasn’t seen as a whole. And they discovered a lot of the ways that we sometimes behave to fulfill a destructive role in a family.

New age is a category for well-meaning psychologies that are too mystical or fuzzy-thinking to do anything else with. There is this one where you do a very specific chant combined with a breathing exercise while thinking of what you want (like a new car). Then, somehow, you will get a new car. Sounds like a religion, but the supporters say that it doesn’t work supernaturally but rather that the chants and breathing “reorder” your mind so that it makes what you were thinking of comes true by guiding your choices subconsciously.

That last link you gave was a little different - it was Humanism as a movement or pop-philosophy rather than a psychology school.





Post 18

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 3:27pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Chris-
I'll agree with some of your unpopular statements. Based on limited personal experience and observation of more broadly experienced men, I think that looks, talkativeness, body language, and especially confidence matter more to hitting it off with women than does reasoned conversation. And while I like to think that Objectivist women are less prone to this than say Christians or communists, those factors probably matter a hell of a lot no matter what. That said..

The NLP usage in particular sounds like utter bullshit. Resorting to double-entendre and Freudian slip language tricks? Is the example Steve gave serious? If I meet a woman in a bar and say "Using neurolinguistic programming to pick up woman is below me" then she'll subconsciously want to fellate me then and there?




Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 11, No Sanction: 0
Post 19

Friday, February 9, 2007 - 3:49pmSanction this postReply
Link
Edit
Howard Roark walked down the auditorium aisle. Despite the dark conditions he moved easily, with a certainty and purposefulness, taking a seat near the stage. The curtains pulled back, the room grew quiet and the stage lights came up.

Ross Jeffries walked on stage stopping at the microphone. After catching the eyes of the nearly all male audience, he began to speak, “You came here tonight because you want to succeed with women. You don’t want to stay home afraid of striking out - fearful of getting shot down. Well, you’re in the right place. I’m going to teach you that those are limiting beliefs and show you how to throw them out. You will learn how to target a woman by using weasel words and imbedded commands. You will have her under your control with secret hypnosis. And with my advanced seduction techniques, you can have her giving you a blow job in the men’s bathroom in mere minutes.”

“Howard’s eyes lit up as though this were what he had waited a lifetime to hear. A look of rapture and wonderment passed over his face…”

“Cut, Cut.” The director stands up and the overhead lights come on. “Ross, I’m sorry, but this isn’t working for me. I know this commercial is really important for you and all, but, hey man, I just can’t see a Roark-type of character going for this - you know?”





Post to this threadPage 0Page 1Forward one pageLast Page
User ID Password reminder or create a free account.