| | The decline I speak of is the political corruption, the patriot act, the faith-based initiatives, the lack of public outrage with all that's wrong, the blatant disregard for probable cause, the outrage of spending American money and lives to create a democracy in a country where it won't take, the decline in ethics across the board, and more. (Steve Wolfer)
Steve,
The problem with this statement is that is it a confusion of two things: 1) a slew of arrows fired at the current administration (of whom I know you are clearly not a fan) and 2) other general laments.
By throwing them all together you appear to be laying the blame for all the ills of country (as you see them) at the current administration's doorstep. (George W. Bush is not responsible for everything that happens in the world...he's just not that damn powerful.)
Then you said to Ed,
I thought that the decline in ethical behavior was, if not self-evident, at least a shared belief on this this forum. It just didn't occur to me that people would find that a subject of debate.
Seeing as how you seem to want to tie the decline in ethical behavior to the Bush administration, I'm a little surprised at your surprise: surely you knew that while many Objectivists hate Bush as passionately as you do...many do not. So there are going to be some people who don't share your view that the country's going to hell in a handbasket. The "debate" shouldn't be surprising to you.
Of course, I understand that I may be misunderstanding your intent once again. Remember, I became confused when you, in (what appeared to be) bolstering your claim that things have truly gotten worse, listed the political scandals. (I say "confused" because obviously I took them to be your proof, which is why I posted initially. You set me straight and said that they were not meant to be taken that way.) Okay. Forget the scandals and forget Bush...maybe I'm misreading you and you don't hold him accountable for everything. No problem.
You also said,
I am aware of the decline mostly because of my age and the perspective it gives me. That and a keen appreciation for such things.
Documenting that kind of decline is not an easy task. I have no intention of trying to prove a case here. This is something people will have to think about (if they want) on their own.
You're right...documenting a "general" decline isn't easy.
But documenting progress is.
And my age and the perspective it gives me helps me to do that.
You highlighted scandals of only the last fifty years, and my boyfriend Ed apparently longs to go back in time to 1959, when there was less government taxation and statism. Well, alrighty, then! Both of you feel free to jump in the time machine and go on back to the good ol' days. I'll stay right here in this handbasket to hell, because I like being able to sit anywhere I want to on a bus, and that "Coloreds Only" drinking fountain bullshit? I'm just not feelin' it. Sorry.
Erica
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... certainly in the Bush era, the republican -- standard republican -- party is becoming less and less friendly to libertarian ideas. There is just practically nothing libertarian about George Bush, with the possible exception of tax cuts. But when tax cuts are not linked with spending cuts, which they've not been with Bush, it's not so much libertarian as, as fobbing off a responsibility on a later generation.
