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Post 0

Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 5:05pmSanction this postReply
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Good retort over the notion that common law is hallowed....



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Post 1

Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 8:26pmSanction this postReply
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Proof only that even a genius can say foolish things out of ignorance.

Common law isn't just a collection of arbitrary rules created by tradition, but the gradual induction of human behavior shown (largely) to be just and workable over a period of centuries.

The comparison should not be to witchdoctors and medicine, but perhaps to the practical rules of chemical combinations and modern chemistry. Even contemporary theoretical chemistry is not so advanced that we can simply deduce what every reaction will be.





Post 2

Thursday, October 11, 2007 - 10:37pmSanction this postReply
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Common law isn't just a collection of arbitrary rules created by tradition, but the gradual induction of human behavior shown (largely) to be just and workable over a period of centuries.

Am more inclined to say somewhere in between...  too often what passes as common law is an ossification of what may have in the beginning been benign worthiness, but thru tradition become hidebound for its own sake - and as such not  worthy of being hallowed......




Post 3

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 7:38amSanction this postReply
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Agreed to this extent: bad rules exist. People (this happens in business frequently) sometimes forget the original circumstances and/or purpose of the rule but keep on following it because "those are the rules."

But bad law comes just as, and probably more, frequently from "top down" methods. The whole history of legislation in the 20th century is proof of that. (Social Security, EPA regulations, etc, etc.)

Even a good constitution is no guarantee of good law, though it helps.



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Post 4

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 10:05amSanction this postReply
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Common law is law created by judges in accord with precedent. The court must follow the reasoning used in prior decisions, a principle which is commonly referred to as stare decisis, which is Latin for "to stand by things decided." Common law is law that is based on and beholden to custom and tradition. One can understand why Rand would not have favored such a system. It is this kind of tradition worship that Howard Roark had to fight against as an innovative architect.

- Bill



Post 5

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 11:45amSanction this postReply
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Though the principle is wider than this application, to oppose a tradition simply because it's a tradition is as slavish as following one because it's a tradition. In either case, others are directing your actions.

It's a false alternative that limits us to choosing Ralston Holcombe or Gus Webb.

The key question is: what gave rise to that tradition? Is it the distillation of generations of human experience, by means of which that which is valuable as learned by those who came before is used by those who came later, or is it just mindless conformism?

But this is taking us away from the topic to larger seas.




Post 6

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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The question isn't so much about the process used to formulate a law as whether the law derives from a proper basis of individual rights. My solution to this issue would be to require that every piece of legislation to be enacted contain a detailed explanation of the principles upon which it rests. The mere act of forcing legislators (to attempt) to publicly articulate the underlying principles would probably stop 50% of legislation from being proposed in the first place and would kill another 25% in the course of public examination and discussion. Furthermore, this documented foundation for a specific piece of legislation would form the basis for court challenges as to the validity (i.e. constitutionality) of a law and would eliminate the sorry history in this country of "strict" versus "loose" interpretation of the intent of laws as language and culture evolve over time. (See Randy Barnett's "Restoring the Lost Constitution" for many examples of this.)

Given this requirement, it would objectify the entire body of law in a way that does not currently exist. The thing I hate most about our current legal system is that anything and everything can be passed into law and its validity can only be really challenged in the courts after the fact. This process needs to be reversed. The review must occur prior to a law's passage, and a requirement to spell out principles before the fact would facilitate this.

I would really love to see the current national health care discussion framed in terms of how this individual "right" to a service and the corresponding "obligation" by others to provide it, derives from the constitution. That would be interesting.

Regards,
--
Jeff



Post 7

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 2:24pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff,

I find your idea very interesting (even if you do spell your name incorrectly ;).

As I understand the definition and facts, however, common law and method is invoked in circumstances where there is no pre-existing law from the legislature.

So, while I find your idea intriguing and worth discussing, I'm unsure how relevant it is to any debate about the validity of common law and the common law approach.



Post 8

Friday, October 12, 2007 - 4:04pmSanction this postReply
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I prefer common law over legislative law. The common law, which is widely disregarded today, is based on two things: past precedent and the discovery of right and wrong to overturn past precedent.

Harry Binswanger wrote, "...the original American system of constitutionally limited government, together with 18th century English common law and rules of parliamentary procedure, was a nearly perfect system from the standpoint of objectivity..." You can read his entire article here.




Post 9

Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 3:28pmSanction this postReply
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Some friends of mine spent a good portion of their free time - much more than I have - investigating the common law and its alternatives over a period of decades.  What I gleaned from discussions with them that might be worthwhile stating for purposes of reference:

The "common law" is literally "the law of the commons."  That is to say, there is private property and private contract, neither of which concern the common law until something breaks.  When there is a dispute over property or contract that cannot be resolved privately by the parties according to their own agreements, then the option to take the issue before a common law court comes into play, strictly because the issue can no longer be handled privately.  It has by default fallen into the commons, where more general principles that go beyond what may have been explicitly incorporated in a contract are the rule.

The contract and/or property title and related private issues do not disappear at this point.  They form the local context within which the more general principles apply. 

Similarly, when a local common law court renders a decision, it can be challenged and appealed to a court of broader authority and jurisdiction on the grounds that the local decision inappropriately violated still broader concerns.

For example, two farmers might be sharing a stream under a joint access contract and a pair of complementary property titles.  Then one of them starts raising pigs and the waste ends up polluting the water upstream of some of the intakes for the other farmer.  There is nothing explicitly in the contract that forbids this, and farmer 1 argues that he should have the perfect right to do so.  It's HIS PROPERTY, damn it.

Farmer 2 realizes that he will never change his neighbor's mind and files suit in the local common law court.  If the court decides in Farmer 1's favor. on the basis of the nature of the contract between them, farmer 2 might then appeal on the basis that there is a broader principle at stake which applies to everyone in the area, all of whom will suffer harm if unchecked pollution destroys the clean water supply.

If the court rules in favor of Farmer 2, on the basis of harm to the property rights of Farmer 1, then Farmer 2 might appeal on grounds that the court inappropriately interfered in a private contract, which spelled out the respective rights and said nothing about any pollution issues.

This may not be the best example, but it's what I could come up with off the top of my head.

One of the myths of the common law, however, according to my friends, who were big common law fans, BTW, is that it was - during the pre-Norman conquest Anglo-Saxon period - of any real level of sophistication by modern legal standards.  This myth I think was started by an account by a Mr. Blackstone in his legal commentaries - someone correct me if I'm wrong. 

In reality, you were lucky if the local common law judge was even literate.  Books and written contracts among the commoners anyway were rare.  Juries were generaly made up of very ignorant and superstitious people and outcomes were generally questionable.  Nonetheless, having ANY kind of law that allowed people to resolve issues peacefully and get on with their lives is vaster superior to the alternative.

The Common Law itself, if implemented properly, aims unswervingly toward full and complete justice.  There are no punishments, no rewards, just equity, returning things to a proper state, and charging whoever was responsible for the damage for the exact costs.  Unfortunatley, this structure can also be very time-consuming and accordingly expensive.  High transaction costs undermine commerce and general productivity.

Non-state alternatives to the Common Law which my friends investigated included the UCC, among others. 

My understanding is that commercial interests created the Uniform Commercial Code, which was intended to bypass the Common Law and the generally even worse - MUCH worse - legislated law bottlenecks by specifically stating how much damages can by demanded, implied duration of contracts and liability issues, etc.  By codifying cases in advance, much of the overhead could be avoided, or so it was hoped.  Alas, over the decades, the UCC has ended up with many, many volumes of cases and exceptions, trying to fit every possible situation.

Among all the alternatives available, I think that private arbitration generally comes out on top.  The process is simpler and much faster and cheaper, and typically yields results as good or better than the positive (legistated) law courts.  However, you can't force someone into private arbitration, under any conceivable system of real justice.  There has to be some kind of option for appeal - unless they agreed in advance, uncoerced, to accept the arbitration verdict as final.

Thus we get to my solution, which is a universal social contract that spells out the methods of conflict resolution for every signatory.  Such a contract could serve as the cornerstone of a universal web of just relationships, with reasonably low and highly objective outcomes.  I would suggest that it specify arbitration, at least as option number one, with perhaps an appelate mechanism aimed mostly at misconduct by arbitrators, and perhaps an option to go to a common law court if one of the parties was willing to post the bond to cover the increased court costs.




Post 10

Monday, October 15, 2007 - 3:02pmSanction this postReply
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I believe common law as it is used today in the United States is only relegated to lower courts inferior to the Supreme Court and was designed as an effort to minimize chaos in the legal system. Today the Supreme Court has no obligation to follow precedence, and can overturn any prior judicial decision made. Likewise an individual state supreme court does not have to follow any precedence established by a lower court. If an inferior court did not have to follow precedence, there would be a lack of consistency in how the law was applied and would generally lead to a lot more legal conflict.



Post 11

Monday, October 15, 2007 - 11:47pmSanction this postReply
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From what I've read, common law has a general meaning, and a specific history.  The general meaning involves judges making new laws through precedent, while respecting old precedents.

The specific history had many local systems of law or custom, and a royal circuit that adopted the laws of the local systems, elevating them to common law.  In this way, the new laws weren't arbitrary.  They were attempts at determining what was already accepted as law or custom. There was a bottom-up spread of ideas, where the common laws were based on the local laws or customs.  I don't have a detailed understanding of how they chose among the local laws, but I was under the impression that they actually looked at which laws were common.  This would be almost a voting system, where the more generally a law is adopted across the local systems, the more likely it would be recognized and adopted as a common law.

I'd like to understand better why the supporters of common law here like it so much.  I'm currently inclined to go with Rand on it, but would like to hear more.

For instance, Jeff Peren mentions that it is a gradual induction of human behavior.  I can readily see how a system, slowly altered over the course of hundreds of years, could eventually have some institutionalized knowledge.  As an analogy, we could look at science and how it's evolved as a method.  The methods weren't deduced from some philosophical axioms.  They changed over time.  We could recognize that there is wisdom that is gradually accumulated over centuries of the process, and I can see how common law could do that.  But while there may be institutional wisdom, there may also be institutional folly.  Again in science, bad philosophy could lead to faulty premises or methods.  Isn't the test of whether the results are wisdom or folly independent of the method of their adoption?  Do we judge the common law as wise because of the method, or in relation to some other standard (individual rights, justice, or whatever).

It's possible that there's an argument that the process will lead to correct and proper results, but I don't see that.  It seems the process will be guided by the ethical and political philosophies accepted by the judges.  It could just as easily lead to bad results.  Is there an argument somewhere that I'm missing for this?

One could take a different angle, and view the common law as an alternative to statutory law, or top-down methods as Jeff described it.  One could make a case that the latter doesn't work that well.  I find it interesting to note that while it may have problems, it can be modified through an evolutionary process the same as common law is, although with much greater variations because new laws don't need to respect precedent.  One could argue that top-down laws acquire institutional wisdom as well, and we either haven't done it long enough, or that the tendency is overpowered by bad philosophy (whereas common law would require slow and slight modification, so a bad philosophy couldn't make fundamental changes..as long as your original system was somewhat good).  But all of this is beside the point.  An argument against legislative law isn't really an argument for common law.  There are alternatives, including combinations.

And maybe the support for common law is based more on a respect in general for the results instead of a respect of the process.

A couple other little points.

1.)  While stare decisis is an important principle, there are more important principles, like individual rights and justice.  Certainly uniformity in the law is good, and is expected when you have a system that provides protection of individual rights and provides justice.  But it isn't much of a virtue outside of that context.

2.)  Common law is just one method of  implementing stare decisis.  The fact that judges make or modify the law is not in any way a requirement for stare decisis.  Following precedent is one way to implement it, but following statutory laws is another.

3.)  I find it strange to argue for investing power in the hands of judges to make the law.  They are rarely elected, and it doesn't really fit the separation of powers very well.  That's a legislative task, not a judicial.

4.)  The real benefit of the common law doesn't seem to be empowering judges.  It seems to be the fact that the judges are limited in their power.  They can't really change the law, they can only create new laws or refine old ones to new contexts, and then it has to be fairly limited.  This meant that there wasn't an opportunity for major changes to the system.  If the original system worked well, there would be little change over time.

5.)  Again, from my reading of the history of common law I described above, the system worked well to a large extent because a law didn't become "common" unless enough local systems accepted it themselves.  So you could still have abusive laws from judges, but when you required a number of them to come to the same conclusions, you ended with a much more sane and just system.  Simply allowing judges to create or refine laws wasn't the real strength at all.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing some good arguments for common law.




Post 12

Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 2:01pmSanction this postReply
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My understanding of common law is that judges didn't really apply precedent to the current case but rather sought justice in the current case using precedent as a guide. Thus the goal was justice with precedent acting as a brake on currently popular passions.

If you say that common law is merely the application of precedent then you are left to explain how the precedent came about and how it changed if it ever did.



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