RoR: Forum

Post 0

Sunday, March 30 - 1:51pm

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...need to be made ?????

Post 1

Sunday, March 30 - 4:40pm

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Yes. Forced, if necessary.

;-)

No. Seriously. You have this need to feel a certain way. If you never get the feeling, you never get this objective and universal human need met. If you never get a natural human need met, you're always left wanting. If you're always left wanting, you never ...

No ... hold on ... just wait a second. Do I really need to spell this stuff out for you like you are a little kid, Rev' (because I thought that you were relatively enlightened)?

Rev', as in almost every other case where you use such vague aphorism instead of doing anything to increase the detail of something someone said (which amounts in practice to little more than cantankerous dissemble), if you had actually made a definite accusation or asked a definite question -- do you think I'd be shown to be in the dark on this point about a "need to be made"?

Or are we going to have another one of those debates where you say as little as you can while posturing some sort of intelligence (or some sort of hubris) -- and I end up calling you out on it? ...

http://rebirthofreason.com/Forum/RoRRomance/0027.shtml#7

Don't get me wrong. I like your incessant use of vague aphorisms here on RoR. They make you think. But be sure, I won't get you wrong, either -- and just be prepared to back-up or back-down from what little it is that you usually have to say, if I notice you being more of a self-righteous jester, than a straight thinker aiming at objective value.

Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/30, 4:46pm)

Post 2

Monday, March 31 - 6:01am

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Since the idea of a childish mind was brought up, and since the Socratic method seems to elude that mind, let's, then, take it by the first step....

"to be made" means being coerced, or to be forced, which means against one's will.....
so the statement, right from the start, is a morass of contradictions (perhaps as if gendered by some mad psychiatrist)....

to wit (as clarified thus) ----

"For [maximal sense of emotionally considering oneself as fine], folks [must be coerced or forced against their will] to feel uncoerced, [to feel as if] capable [perhaps because if not coerced, they would emotionally consider themselves not capable??]....etc., etc." (will tackle "somehow connected" later, maybe)

Post 3

Monday, March 31 - 1:57pm

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Rev',

I already talked about me being in the dark, or not being in the dark -- regarding the phrase: "need to be made." You got into this trouble with me through the use of poorly-disciplined innuendo (Ed's championing the initiation of force here), and you are trying to use the same poor method (Ed's childish mind) to turn it back around on me after I called you out on it. Now, you are beginning to remind me of a Brendan, or a Daniel Barnes.

When you said: "...need to be made ?????" -- what it is that you were assuming is that I must have either:

(1) poorly chose an idea
(2) poorly chose my words to express it

As you bring this critical hyper-focus down to a level where you can engage in semantics rather than debate -- you ignore a vast history of my recorded thought (here on RoR). Am I the kind of guy that thinks folks should be forced (to do anything)? Think about it. Wait. Before you answer that, Rev' ... RoR participants and lurkers ... do any of you who have seen my contributions here for a long while (a year or more), do any of you think I'd ever argue for the initiation of force?

Let's try the context. The context that the phrase "need to be made" was made in was a context of "feelings." A useful sentence might be: "How does that make you feel?" Now, with all this in mind, what would your kind of thinking sound like at a coffee table? Let's say that I were to ask you, Rev', about how something makes YOU feel. How would you answer? If this thread is an indication of what you'd say, then I guess I'd get some kind of cantankerous retort like this:

"THINGS don't MAKE me feel ANYTHING! Only I -- me, myself -- can ever make me feel anything (by CHOOSING to make myself feel something). Circumstances don't matter to me UNLESS I CHOOSE to let them matter."

And you would have entirely missed the point of my question. But you would have made it seem like I wasn't thinking clearly when I asked you. You would have made yourself appear extra-intelligent (or myself appear intellectually-deficient; depending on who's listening).

Whatever, man.

Ed

Post 4

Monday, March 31 - 5:22pm

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Ed, I think you should just give up and edit the quote to read, "For optimal well-being, folks need to feel uncoerced, capable, and connected to others." When I read the quote, my first thought was "need to be made???", just like Robert's.

Post 5

Monday, March 31 - 8:08pm

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Laure,

I'm disappointed that my quote made you feel that way.

Ed

Post 6

Tuesday, April 1 - 8:32am

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I got a good laugh from Robert's initial post considering it a good natured ribbing but:

After a particularly good lecture a student got an important insight remarking "Thank you professor, that really MADE me understand this subject a lot better".

After receiving a bunch of flowers at work one morning the girl thanked her boyfriend "Thank you, that really MADE my day".

After receiving a welcome compliment for a job well done the boy thought to himself "Gee, that really MAKES me feel good".

Oh the coercion, the unfreedom......

Post 7

Tuesday, April 1 - 12:41pm

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reply to post 6/

He -made- me to do x as in caused.

He -made- me to do x as in forced

He -made- me to do x as in persuaded.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) words have different meanings in different contexts.

Bob Kolker

Post 8

Thursday, April 3 - 5:10am

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Bob,

You are right to suspect it fortunate that words have meanings linked to the very context in which they are used.

Ed