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Post 40

Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 4:10pmSanction this postReply
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Yeesh. Jeanine, I'm pretty sure Orion was just parodying some of the Left's conspiracy theories re the 2000 elections. I mean, really, Bush had himself installed as President because he thought it was vital that he hold that position when 9/11 happened? Cuckoo!

That you took his jesting at face value shows just how paranoid and delusional these theories, and the Left's persecution complex in general, have become over the past 4 years. Orion's sarcastic post does almost seem tame by comparison.




Post 41

Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 6:16pmSanction this postReply
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George:
 
Benevolent?!   yep, ignorant I guess.  If supporting Israel on the basis of "it was their land first" while living on land swindled and stolen from Native Americans makes us benevolent, then forgive me, I don't know what I was thinking.  bah!
 
And an inherently decent sense of life?  Tell that to the Vietnam Vets who came back to our country greeted by spit in their faces.  Tell that to the baby whose irresponsible mother exercises her "right" to abortion.  Tell it to the families whose lives are ruined by a gun-related crime, or the families torn apart by drugs, domestic abuse, or child molestation.
 
Having creature comforts like nice homes, luxurious automobiles, and Little Debbie Snack Cakes makes this country an often blissful place to live, but by no means does it make the United States any more "inherently decent" than any other developed democracy.




Post 42

Wednesday, November 3, 2004 - 7:52pmSanction this postReply
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What I find almost nauseating is watching the French, et. al. fall over themselves in congratulations to Bush, saying they want "bygones to be bygones," and they want to "start over."  

It is a poetic illustration of why they liked Kerry so much to begin with.




Post 43

Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 12:04amSanction this postReply
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My compliments to Chris for his sharp foresight in calling this year's election. I believe the voter polls also show that he was dead on regarding the importance of religious evangelicals in Bush's victory.

This, I might add, should give serious pause to those Objectivists (including me) who supported Bush's reelection. The next four years may yet prove that we seriously miscalculated the danger of a religious agenda being enacted during a second Bush presidency. Post-election analysts seem to agree that Bush owes his victory to the mobilization of a religious conservative base, which turned out in part to vote for constitutional initiatives to ban gay marriage in 11 states. The conservative press is already abuzz with proclamations of a mandate to enact a conservative agenda on social issues. In many of the op-eds I have read, free-market reforms like Social Security privatization and spending cuts seem all but a footnote next to the priorities of waging a cultural war with the institutions of government. Over at the National Review, that odious gambling addict Bill Bennett was even happy to see the war on terrorism shoveled aside to make way for a traditionalist crusade that he dubs "The Great Relearning." The Great Reeducation would be a more accurate moniker.

I have been as happy as anyone to listen to the sullen dejection and panic that has gripped the left-wingers on my campus. Their wholehearted embrace of the twin evils of socialism and appeasement means they deserve every moment of the despair and angst that they are suffering.

But for those who love freedom, the appropriate tone right now is cautious, guarded optimism, not the ebullient triumphalism I have seen today from some Objectivists. All I can do now is wait and see what happens over the next four years, and hope that the worst of my suspicions do not come to pass. In the meantime, I fear some SOLOists may have earned themselves "I told you so"'s.




Post 44

Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 1:26amSanction this postReply
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Pete,

You said:
So Jeanine, are you saying that it's OK if he thinks those things, but not if says so openly?
My answer:  of course!  You see, when we see four fingers held in front of us, we have to say that we see five.

And Jeanine implies that I'm oppressive.




Post 45

Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 11:07amSanction this postReply
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Orion, please forgive the clarity-seeking, and all newspeak aside: did you mean to be straightforward in post 36 or did you mean to use sarcastic doublespeak?

Ed




Post 46

Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 11:30amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Why?  Does it sound too far-fetched to you?




Post 47

Thursday, November 4, 2004 - 2:59pmSanction this postReply
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Orion, you have avoided answering a previous question of mine (a "patriot act" question).  Now, you are questioning my questioning and perhaps you will not ever give me a straight answer on this or that. 

I am trying to learn from you, but you have made it difficult at times.  However, I feel that what you have to offer is valuable, so I do plan to continue attempting to converse with you.  I am not attempting to be underhanded or disingenuous (where conversations must remain guarded, defensive, and ultimately unproductive). 

Perhaps I should be "getting it" faster.  Perhaps it's "no fun" discussing things with me.  Perhaps you will choose not to engage me in the future.  I, however, see great value in the engagement of others.  Sometimes, adjustments are required in order to allow others to be "caught up to speed" regarding something.  This can require patience and evaluation when appropriating invested energy into an exchange with another.  I'm asking for such patience and evaluation from you.  If you prefer not to answer, please say so (if you prefer not to say so, I'll eventually wise-up and invest my energy in dialogue with others).

As to your rejoinder, the question is not whether it sounds far-fetched to me, but whether it does to you.  You words and rejoinder remind me of a line in a movie (name forgotten): "just run it up the flagpole, and see if anyone salutes it." 

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 11/04, 3:01pm)




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