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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 3:18amSanction this postReply
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Speaking as one of the libertarians who hasn't forgiven Giuliani "for going after Michael Milken during the "insider-trader" scandals of the 1980's" I must say that I enjoyed Chris' article, in large part because I didn't realise how great a "libertarian streak" Giuliani had. But, while a decline in crime is of course a good thing, I'm not sure how comfortable I am with that being achieved at the expense of civil liberties.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 5:03amSanction this postReply
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I fully agree that Giuliani's prosecution of Michael Milken was a disgrace. I think that if he were President, we would be in a position similar to our position with Bush: we would have a leader some of whose policies were questionable at best, but who was superb at leading the country in time of war. And so long as I think that Muslim fascism is the great threat that faces us, I will vote for the latter kind of leader.

Barbara

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 10:36amSanction this postReply
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Thanks, Chris. This is very helpful for people trying to gain perspective on this most complex politician. I have been thinking that after this election, a realignment of the parties should be a major goal. I believe that the next political label around which we should rally will be Liberal Republican. If the Republicans can't nominate someone from this branch of their party, it may well be time for a new party.
I plan to write on this, but let me just say that Liberal Republican now means Giuliani, not Nelson Rockefeller. Its best current example, I believe, is Arnold Schwarzenegger, but we have a little problem with him and the presidency called the Constitution.

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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 11:28amSanction this postReply
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Double posting. Grr.

(Edited by Matthew Humphreys on 9/01, 1:59pm)


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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 11:28amSanction this postReply
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James,

I am very intrigued by your suggested realignment, which you've also mentioned on the discussion thread following my own article. I take it the aim would be a very gradual reduction in both social and economic control? (Personally I think it will have to take a great deal of time, probably years to fully implement a libertarian government without creating massive social upheaval.)

As for Arnie, I'm sure he would get a great deal of support both in the US and the rest of the world. Realistically, what are the chances of getting that constitutional provision dropped?

MH


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Post 5

Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 4:03pmSanction this postReply
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Hi folks... I think it is telling that I wrote this little piece back in 1999, five years ago... and two years before the horrific events of 9/11.  I don't think I've had a change of heart concerning Rudy Giuliani; I still think he is one of the more complex politicians, ideologically speaking, to have ever graced New York City.  I don't believe that the good things he achieved were built on massive violations of civil liberties (that's not to say that nobody's rights were ever violated---this is politics, after all).  It's just that most of the things that he objected to were taking place on public streets.  While the ideal libertarian political solution is to privatize everything, including the streets, the existence of public streets does not mean that citizens must put up with people's "rights" to urinate on the street, or to get "in-your-face" when you refuse to have them wash the windows of your car with filthy mops.

Giuliani accepted the so-called "broken window" theory of crime control.  If somebody throws a rock through a window, you don't wait until thirty or forty other rock throwers create more broken windows.  You simply draw a line, create a standard, create a bar below which you will not tolerate certain violations in the quality of life.  Moreover, he instituted Compstat in the police department, tracking crime in certain districts, and putting more resources in those districts to repair the "broken windows," so-to-speak.  This meant also targeting those who were committing petty crimes---like spray-painting graffiti on buildings, or jumping the subway fare---because, invariably, those committing petty crimes were also committing more serious crimes.

Prior to Giuliani, NYC had over 2000 murders per year.  There have been approximately 600 murders a year in this city for the last 6 or 7 years.  The crime rate continues to drop because of strategies the Giuliani administration pursued, even while many other major cities have had an increase in crime.

I remember too how so many people made a big deal over Giuliani's anger at the Brooklyn Museum for its public display of a dung-adorned portrait of the Virgin Mary.  It was all much ado about nothing; he had no objections to the display of that portrait in any private museum---but questioned whether government funds should be going to such ... crap.

Jim is probably correct; there is a small segment of so-called Liberal Republicans (mostly from the Northeast or the West coast).  But given the electoral demographics supporting the current GOP, I doubt that it will ever transform that party.  I hope, one day, that Ayn Rand's vision will be realized... where the "non-traditional conservatives" and the "non-totalitarian liberals" might build a political future that we can live with. 

Until then, I recognize the complexity of current political realities, and vote, when I must, for the candidates that are least likely to cause more damage.  But that doesn't mean that I have to like the ideological currents in either the Democratic or Republican Parties.


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Wednesday, September 1, 2004 - 5:34pmSanction this postReply
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Matthew- I think it is unlikely that the Democrats will allow a change to the Constitution very quickly. If Arnie were a Democrat, I doubt the Republicans would allow it. We have to think of a way to shame them into accepting the change.
I have started a few pieces on the Liberal Republican idea, which I will finish...sometime. The rate of change is impossible to predict. I believe in moving ahead with as much good will and speed as can be maintained and tolerated. If you are going in the right direction, surprising things happen when you least expect it ( remember the Berlin Wall).

Chris- great figures on Giuliani. You very well may be right about the Republican Party. If we can't have "Liberal Republicans", perhaps we will need a new centrist party made up of "liberal republicans".

Post 7

Friday, September 3, 2004 - 9:59pmSanction this postReply
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Chris is correct that ~some~ of Mr. Giuliani's anti-crime policies were good, but "making the trains run on time" does not absolve a politician of his other sins. And Mr. Giuliani, currently an almost rabid supporter of the indefensible Bush regime, has a list of sins that I believe would still qualify him for one of the lower circles of hell. Putting one innocent person in prison is a horrid crime, but Mr.Giuliani is responsible for unjustly depriving many people of their liberty through his fanatical support of grossly immoral anti-drug and anti-business laws. I say keep Mr. Giuliani's good policies , but throw the man on the dung heap where he belongs until such time as he repents of his evil.

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