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Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 2:42amSanction this postReply
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Do you mean you just went down to your local music store and bought them?  I can't find anything like this where I shop.
and what, I mean what, do you mean about Joan Sutherland??
Meant to be singing, sir?  :-)
Cass


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Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 4:57amSanction this postReply
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Peter, when I read the first two paragraphs of your article, I almost expired of jealousy. But when I read further, I decided that life was worth living after all: I, too, have discovered the wonders of opera on DVD. Jim Kilbourne introduced me to them.

And I wouldn't care if Domingo were 90; I'd still want to see and hear him perform Siegfried.

Who was in Gotterdamerung," and Die Walkure? You gave them both decent marks. ("Pass" will do if it's all that's available.)

Barbara


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Post 2

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 7:31amSanction this postReply
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Ah, Peter, that was a glorious read.

 

....Funny, I was thinking of the influence that Opera has on people. Opera nuts usually have an extroverted romantic flare and panache...but then that would make sense as a response to operas' projection of serious love, to the heart-wrenching challenges of their characters' integrity, and it is done with huge voices that project out from the base of their loins and soar and soar supported by musical genius. Give me passion or give me death!

 

 

 


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Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 8:12amSanction this postReply
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"[3] Big Bangs: The Story of Five Discoveries that Changed Musical History, Howard Goodall; Vintage, 2001.
[4] Goodall again. You really should see his TV series Big Bangs, after which the book was written. I believe it too is available on DVD."

No you can't get the TV series on DVD, only on video unfortunately.

As far as I know, you can only buy it here:
http://www.4learningshop.co.uk/Index_Ch4Learning.cfm?CFID=313807&CFTOKEN=5264f40fbaf4acb4-737F5791-65BF-7492-BE6D94E8FC75FA6B

You should also watch his series "Great Dates". In one episode he completely unmasks the "evil" behind the music and philosophical ideas of Wagner.


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Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 12:00pmSanction this postReply
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Peter, you MUST come to Los Angeles! When I refer to my misspent youth, I usually mean all the time I spent devising opera festivals. And it sure wasn't misspent! I have many opera festivals that keep poking their long tenacles out of me and surrounding surprised dinner guests. No one has seen the "belly of the (octopus) beast" in me since I did funny mushrooms and Wagner's Ring in the early '70's. I don't need the mushrooms any more ( unless...er, never mind.), but I sure as hell need the festivals!
I'm am in the beginning stages of writing "A Layman Wanders Through the Wonders of Puccini," (or something like that title). Can't you imagine a two week Puccini festival at my house with the 10 most faithful SOLOists from around the world as the basis for the concluding chapter? There aren't enough kleenex in the world for Barbara, let alone for the rest of us, if that ever happens.

Post 5

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 2:00pmSanction this postReply
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Barbara,
Pssttt!!!! I've got Das Rheingold, Die Walkure, Siegfried and Die Gotterdammerung complete on DVD just waiting for someone to say, "What's this?" It's The James Morris, James Levine, Metropolitan Opera set, by the way.
I have the Donald McIntyre set on Laser Disc. I have the Georgi Solti set complete on CD. I have the Rysanek, Vickers Die Walkure on record.

Don't ask what I have of Puccini, Lanza, Callas or Domingo unless you have a good amount of time.

Post 6

Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 5:24pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus - you wrote:

"You should also watch his series Great Dates. In one episode he completely unmasks the 'evil' behind the music and philosophical ideas of Wagner."

Is that the one you played for me? Where I was whoopin' because Goodall described the music in almost identical terms to those *I* had used *before* you played the tape? Meretricious, meandering muck & the like? Yes, I would *highly* recommend *that* programme! :-)

Linz






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Saturday, September 4, 2004 - 8:42pmSanction this postReply
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Thanks, everyone, for your comments. If only I could have taken such a trip in reality. :-)

I do apologise for nearly causing the extinction of Mrs Branden! I would hate to have that marked against me - I might have to take down from its frame on my wall the endorsement she gave of my last effort here at SOLO, and I'd hate  to have to do that.. :-)

Cass: I confess, not all the copies were obtained from my local music store - although Marbecks here in Auckland can take a well-deserved bow. Amazon, of course, has a fair selection if you local stores are less than useful.

What do I mean by my gratuitous swipe at Joan Sutherland's singing? Well, one needn't use subtitles when listening to Ms Sutherland since she doesn't try and sing the words in front of her: she sings vowels, not consonants, and even those barely related to those written for her parts. Responding to criticisms along these lines she once shot back that 'if you want drama, you should go see a play.' In my case, I choose (for the most part) to go see instead someone who does understand when they're singing that opera is dramatic. She makes a good Woodbird, though. :-)

Barbara: I too would love to see Domingo as Siegfried, even if he was ninety. Alas, that is unlikely now to happen on stage - and unlikely to be affordable if it were to happen - but it could well happen, and affordably, on DVD.

The 'Walkure' was the 1980 Boulez/Chereau Ring from Bayreuth with Peter Hofmann (who went on to sing Rock Classics!), New Zealander Donald McIntyre and Gwyneth Jones. All were apparently chosen for their acting rather than their singing, as is sometimes evident. The singing is mostly good, if occasionally idiosyncratic; the staging, apart from Act III is dramatic if a bit monochromatic; but unusually the singers actually act  their roles, which really works with the close-ups afforded by DVD: Siegmund and Sieglinde actually convey that they're in love by both their singing and their acting, and when the curtain descends on Act I we're left to wonder if that was just acting!  :-)

'Gotterdammerung' is the Met version under Levine, which for the most part is traditionally, if not to say, boringly,. staged. Costumes are execrable - Hildegarde Behrens' Brunnhilde appears to be wearing a sack for much of the performance - and staging difficulties are simply eschewed - there are now horse, for example. Siegfried Jerusalem's Siegfried is serviceable; Matti Salmonen's Hagen is electric. (The footnotes in the article are cunningly set up to link to the relevant Amazon pages should you wish for further details.)

Michael: You are dead right, as usual.

Marcus: As usual, you give me some work to do.

Not having yet had the benefit of seeing Richard unmasked by Howard you have the advantage on me there, but I can imagine the usual mud was flung, some of which should stick, but most of which is mostly undeserved. Wagner was in some ways an odious little man, (but so in many of the self-same ways was Shakespeare!) but he can hardly be held responsible as some authors would have it for the evils of Hitler, the Holocaust or the birth of Nazism. Once again, Marcus, I would counsel context when coming to terms with the Wagner legacy.

If you really do wish to understand the 'evil' behind the ideas of Wagner, both philosophical and musical, you might wish to avail yourself of a wonderfully clear book called The Tristan Chord by Brian Magee, which is the most balanced account of Wagner I've yet read. Magee is unique in being both a philosopher and a musician, which gives him, I might suggest, a little more insight than our friend Mr Goodall ( I wonder though if Howard is by any chance related to the ENO Wagnerian Reginald Goodall?) and unlike our friend Mr Wagner, he writes both well and simply.

James:  If I bring my CD and DVD collection will you put an airline ticket in the post for me?? :-) If not <cough> I'm afraid I'll have to leave you and Barbara and ten others to enjoy the unique combination of Puccini and  peyote you seem to be offering. :-)

Lindsay: Lindsay, Lindsay, Lindsay. As I said to you yesterday, I'm sure the charges of meretricious, meandering muck were really being directed at the melody-free maunderings of Mahler and Richard Strauss and the like. Once again, I would argue that Wagner has been unfairly attacked based largely on the failings of his followers.
:-)

(Edited by Peter Cresswell on 9/04, 8:42pm)


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Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 6:12amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the information, Peter. I agree that decent acting adds enormously to opera -- but I never shall forget seeing "Tristan and Isolde" at the old Met (the only real Met, the epitome of glamor and elegance). Kirsten Flagstad and Lauritz Melchior played the doomed lovers. Between them, they constituted about 450 pounds of people, and I'm sure never had heard that there was such a phenomenon as acting. But within five minutes of their appearance, I was watching two beautiful young lovers passionately and heroically singing of a deathless love. It was magnificent!

James, my question is: what have you done for me lately? I desperately want to hear the DVDs you mention, but do you have Tristan and Isolde? If not, when do you plan to get it?

Post 9

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 7:16amSanction this postReply
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Linz,

Yes. That is the episode I mean. It's quite amazing. I can watch certain episodes of Howard Goodalls dozens of times and still get something new from them each time. 

 

 
Peter,

Obviously nothing that Goodall can say would ever convince you otherwise - because you obviously are a passionate admirer of Wagner's music - but it would be interesting to get your response. If I still have it, as I recorded it off the TV, I could send it to you - if you are keen to see it?

Goodall is a musician and he composes music for films and TV programs. As to being a philosopher - would you really prefer the judgement of an academic philosopher?

Something to watch out for if it is played in NZ - is a gameshow called QI (stands for quite interesting). It is hosted by Stephen Fry. Goodall wrote the theme tune for it and also appears as a contestant from time to time. Questions are asked which require very specialist knowledge - so you get points if you can say something "quite interesting" relating to the topic as well. You get a penalty if you give the "obvious" wrong answer.


(Edited by Marcus Bachler on 9/05, 7:38am)

(Edited by Marcus Bachler on 9/05, 8:43am)


Post 10

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 10:37amSanction this postReply
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Peter- even though you didn't mention the magnificence of James Morris' Wotan in the Met production, I will still start a "essential SOLOists to LA" fund. This time around, I will settle for cooking something with mushrooms in celebration, if I can convince Jennifer Iannolo to join in the preparations.

And, of course, in your honor, some really great beer.

Post 11

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 2:15pmSanction this postReply
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That sound you hear is me expiring with jealousy! Barbara: you saw Flagstad! ... and Melchior!! ... together!!! ... in Tristan!!!!
 
<sinks to the floor in envious exaltation>


Post 12

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 4:40pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, I've expired with envy, but have now been reincarnated as an annoying questioner. Barbara: Could you perhaps, in your spare time, relate every single minute of the performance for me, from you arriving in the theatre to your thoughts and memories of the performance over subsequent days? Would that be too demanding of me? Or perhaps just every moment that you can remember? Or just any moment at all that you feel like relating? Anything at all. Anything. (Yes, I am begging.) :-)

 

There's a fascinating series of accounts of the early performances of Kirsten and Lauritz in these roles that might jog your memory. I presume your memories will be of the 1950/51 performances?

 

And I’m fascinated to know how AR handled your obvious Wagner enthusiasm? I understand she described Beethoven as malevolent, Mozart as pre-music; we’re told that after seeing La Boheme she hopped around and squealed that "If someone can't feel Puccini's music, he must be dead"; we know that she included Wagner in her early list of creators in The Fountainhead … so how exactly did she feel about Wagner, and about your obvious enthusiasm for his music? I’d love to know. (And as far as you know, did she actually hold these views of Wolfgang, Ludwig and Giacamo as she is reported to?)


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Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 5:16pmSanction this postReply
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Marcus

I'd love to see the programme - a good friend here took great pleasure in telling me about it as we'd both so enjoyed Howard's 'Big Bangs' series. Who knew that the composer of the theme music to 'Black Adder could put together such a great series on music? I did manage to tape a couple of the 'Big Bangs' episodes, but as I've yet to see any of this later series. I enthusiastically accept your offer. In fact, you could put me down as being desperately keen. :-)

Whether it's likely to convince me about Wagner's 'evil' however is another thing. It's not that I prefer the judgement of the academic philosopher over the evidence of the fine Mr Goodall - it's that I prefer the evidence of my own ears. Magee's book says what I would try and say about Wagner if I was able to; if you don't wish to try the book as a counter to the arguments of Howard, why not simply try the evidence of your own ears? Try getting a copy for example of 'Isolde's Transfiguration' (often called the 'Liebestod' from Tristan and Isolde) and just listening to it. If you don't get that, then there's really just no hope for you. :-)

And James, what a feast of generous offers I have here! It just shows what good things come when we share our enthusiasms. :-) I heartily endorse the setting up of the "essential SOLOists to LA" fund. Such an obviously worthy charity is, I'd suggest, worthy of unlimited support. And as an inducement to donate, if you can persuade Jennifer to help prepare the mushrooms I can offer a re-presentation of my SOLO conference presentation on architecture. Or, if you prefer, I can promise just to open my mouth only to eat. And to drink that excellent beer. :-) (And notice how I still haven't mentioned James Morris' Wotan?)


(Edited by Joseph Rowlands on 9/06, 12:46am)


Post 14

Sunday, September 5, 2004 - 6:57pmSanction this postReply
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Peter- I, too, am envious of Barbara. The Flagstad and Melchior recordings are powerful. Barbara and I saw Die Walkure in San Francisco in '95, but I can't remember the cast, which is pretty unusual.
You don't love the ending of Die Walkure with Morris? Really? I think it is the most moving I have seen.
One of my favorite Wotans was George London. Solti is my favorite conductor of the Ring.
I actually spent an afternoon and evening with a small group that included Donald McIntyre, who is a wonderful gentleman and an excellent Wotan. I lived in a studio at the Hotel Ansonia and he was a few blocks closer to Lincoln Center. I was with a friend of his one afternoon, when we bumped into him and went back to his place.
I saw Nilsson and Vickers in Tristan at the Met in the mid seventies. The voices were great; the staging almost frightening. Every time they sang of love, they would rise some 20 or 30 feet above the stage. It was a great idea, but it ended up breaking the mood. I saw Rysanek's final performance in Die Walkure at the met. I saw the Ring in six days in Seattle in the mid eighties. A great experience, even if it wasn't a memorable cast or production. You are definitely dragging up the memories. Like one act each of Walkure and Parsifal with Voidt and Domingo a few years ago here in LA....
How I wish I had you all to share it with. I did most of it on my own.

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Wednesday, September 8, 2004 - 5:56pmSanction this postReply
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"You don't love the ending of Die Walkure with Morris? Really? I think it is the most moving I have seen."

 I have seen the Met 'Rheingold,' but haven't yet seen their 'Walkure' - the Met DVDs I have are 'Gotterdammerung' and' Parsifal,' in neither of which of course does Wotan appear. I recall his Wotan in Rheingold as being very good, but the Walkure Act III is the big Wotan moment really, isn't it.

What wonderful stories - one unfortunate consequence of living in NZ is so few opportunities to see the likes of those performances you boast of. I just might have to expire with jealousy once again. :-)


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Wednesday, September 8, 2004 - 9:53pmSanction this postReply
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Lindsay, clearly Jim has not yet seen your statement that:

"I'm sure the charges of meretricious, meandering muck were really being directed at the melody-free maunderings of Mahler and Richard Strauss and the like."

I'm sure of it, because you are still alive.

Barbara

Post 17

Wednesday, September 8, 2004 - 9:56pmSanction this postReply
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Peter, I'm sure James has not yet seen your statement that:

" I'm sure the charges of meretricious, meandering muck were really being directed at the melody-free maunderings of Mahler and Richard Strauss and the like."

I'm sure of it, because you are still breathing.

Barbara

Post 18

Wednesday, September 8, 2004 - 10:15pmSanction this postReply
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Okay, Peter, I'll do my best to take you through my adventures with Tristan -- but I can't do it until I finish an article I'm working on. But I won't forget.

I'll give you a snippet now. As I was leaving the Met that night, in a kind of ecstatic trance, I saw two handsome, elegant young men who also were leaving; they wore dinner suits, and capes which swung behind them, and one gestured with an ornamental cane -- and I was sure there was a heaven, and that I had entered it.To be continued.

To answer your questions about Ayn Rand: yes, she did say that Beethoven's music was malevolent and that Mozart was pre-music -- although Alan Greenspan, who loved Mozart, later convinced her, at least for the space of an evening, that Mozart was not quite as hopeless as she thought

She thoroughly detested the music of Wagner. But for reasons I can only speculate about, she never objected to my love for it. There were other such issues between us, but they seemed never to affect our closeness:she knew of my great affection for Sidney Hook, who vehemently disagreed with her philosophy, but she did not object to that; she knew of my love for the paintings of van Gogh, and did not object to that.

Barbara

Post 19

Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 2:37amSanction this postReply
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Barbara:
Can you tell us why Ayn Rand thought Beethovens' music was "malevolent"?  Did she include the Pastoral Symphony, which surely has elements of joyousness and triumph in it?
Thanks
Cass.


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