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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 6:46amSanction this postReply
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"Capitalism, as can be seen, is consistent with the scientific principles of economics. As this is the case, it will always prevail."

Should it prevail? Well, yes. But in a world filled with irrational men, mystics, and religious fanaticism, hardly likely.

John

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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 9:22amSanction this postReply
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I think the author makes some very good points, and I agree with the sentiment of the article.  I am not so sure that the analysis itself is that strong, however, but I will leave it up to others to discuss that because I want to discuss the article's main thrust.

I am reading Thomas Barnett's "The Pentagon's New Map" - which presents some very compelling ideas, even if it may not be in synch with Objectivism itself.  (side note - I would like to present a review of the book here once I finish.  How do I submit that?).

The book describes the globalization process through several stages, and this process is in fact the growing triumph of Capitalism as a system.  One thing I notice is now the fact that we can deal peacably via competition of economics and ideas across the USA, Europe, and the former Communist Nations and even China.  What happens now is that a Nation can no longer afford to be isolated in any particular area or overly reliant on old, socialist ideas.  This applies to the USA (revising taxes and social security - for example some Eastern Block Nations have better tax systems than we do, and this pressure works in our favor), to Europe (socialism is losing because it is non-competitive), and most obviously to the newly emerging Nations. 

The challenge of the 21st Century is to bring the rest of the world in with us - what he calls the "non-integrating core."  What I find of value here is that:

1.  There is no need for "doom and gloom" - this applies to the ARI fanatics as well as the anarcho-libertarians.  This is a positive view, and frankly despite the mass warfare of the previous century, Capitalism reduced the poverty of the world by 50% even as the population of this Earth doubled.

2.  The competition of ideas will ensure that the better ideas win - capitalism and Objectivism both are better ideas than what has gone before.

3.  A Policy of forward defense will, by the end of the century, result in a much safer world for the USA as well as everyone else on the planet.  In this, this Nation does need to take the lead, and I believe it is in our self-interest to do so.  Again, nobody thought in 1945 that Germany and Japan would be where they are today, did they?  In 1962, did we think that Russia would collapse by 1989?

In any case - I applaud the positive nature of this article - don't let negativity take hold, especially when we are, indeed, winning.

(Edited by Kurt Eichert on 2/08, 10:04am)


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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 9:44amSanction this postReply
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Kurt- Thanks for the shared optimism

I think any objections to this article come from the fact that it sounds as if I am preaching determinism and that capitalism must win as a result.  I think my argument would be better made in that Natural Law is Natural Law.  It is neither good nor bad, it just is and as such must be observed.  Any deviation from it or actions which violate it will eventually be brought down (see gravity example.)  How this occurs is not inevitable, only the fact that it will occur is.  For example, we could all continually ignore nautral law and oppress others and violate freedoms but this will not stand in the long run.  Either Capitlaism will take over and win (my argument) or people will ultimately destroy themselves.  Natural Law must be observed if we are to prosper both as individuals and then as a society.  If it is ignored, then actions ignoring it will ultimately be brought down.   How this occurs remains to be seen.  My outlook and hope is that it is through positive action and progress.  But the very real possiblity exists that on the other end of the spectrum people may just wind up destroying themselves in the end.  There is no one conclusion that is inevitable.  The only inevitability is that the conclusion will be consistent with Natural Law and reality.


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Tuesday, February 8, 2005 - 5:12pmSanction this postReply
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This is a well written article, Patrick. You have obviously put a lot of thought and care into it. That said, I think you have made some major philosophical errors. I will briefly comment on the more important ones.

“Existence, the primacy of existence, the primacy of the individual over society, and identity are the most notable. From these absolutes, natural laws can be found and universally validated.”

First, you seem to be saying that “natural laws” can be rationalistically deduced from some primary absolutes. But this is not how science proceeds. If it were, we could simply move from one clear thought to the next, following the correct method, and pretty soon we would know everything about everything.

I grant that scientists do proceed from theories, but these are far from absolute. They are tentative generalisations that can only hold if they are falsifiable, but yet to be falsified.

Second, the notion of applying “natural law” to humans is suspect, due to its theistic and deterministic overtones. What we sometimes call natural laws are more properly described as theories about observed regularities in nature, (although we still use the term “law” as a matter of convenience). There is nothing inevitable about these theories. Some are discarded, some last the course, but you can’t tell which is which before the case.

A third and related flaw is the assumption that “natural laws” determine human behaviour, in the same way that gravity determines the behaviour of apples. But much human behaviour seems to escape this sort of determinism, so your analogy is misplaced.

In fact, even if your analogy were valid, it’s a bad analogy. People who jump off cliffs usually die. In likening capitalism to gravity – “Capitalism is the gravity that will cause his fall” -- you are implying that capitalism leads to death. I’m sure you don’t mean to imply this. A better analogy might be “holding back the tide” or some such, but even so, analogies are necessarily informal arguments and cannot support absolute or inevitable claims.

Brendan


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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 6:04amSanction this postReply
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Scheper wrote (brackets mine): An art, however, is a process that is valid only in the mind of the individual.[!] It does not come from universal truths and is not valid according to axioms or natural law. [Light, form, space, color, movement, goal directedness through themes, consistency, internal logic, etc are not universals?] Its only validation comes from personal emotions and preferences.[!] For example, painting is an art in that the final product of the process (a painting or perhaps a mural) is valid and agreeable based solely upon an individual's perspective and is not universally transferable to other individuals.[!] Jon likes the works of Monet, Jane does not. Neither is wrong. It is simply a matter of opinion.[!]

 

The ideas you’re espousing above are a crock of shit.


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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 6:53amSanction this postReply
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The ideas you’re espousing above are a crock of shit.

So Michael, tell us how you really feel!

George


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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 8:16amSanction this postReply
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Hi Michael,

 

That’s great premise-checking!

 

I also caught the following:

The different ways in which the scientists performed the experiments are results of the art of the experiment.

 
Since I myself recently have also been contemplating “Science and Art” (not Science vs Art) a lot, the “art of the experiment” in this quote definitely is not the Art that I’ve been thinking about.


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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 10:36amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for all the feedback so far.  I certianly need to go over my essay with a fine-toothed comb.  I may rework it and resubmit it at some point.  Many thanks to those who provided enlightening comments.  Please keep them coming.

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Wednesday, February 9, 2005 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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Well, I read through the article. In addition to the serious flaws in defining premises, the approach used in the argument is, to say the least, very unscientific. One example,

"Political science is a science (as the name implies)..."

I'm sorry but I think the article is rather hopeless.


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