| | MSK, I stopped keeping score 20 posts ago.
;-)
Mike E.,
Joe spent serious time and energy speaking his peace. And, with the exception of Steve -- the only one who actually attempted a rational reconciliation with Joe's position -- folks "outright disagreed" or "detracted" if you will. You had talking points in post 55, yes. But they don't refer well to Joe's position. I had talking points of my own about this in post 58. For instance, you said this ...
"To insist on absolute "honesty" regardless of context or purpose or results seems robotic to me."
... and, in indirect rebuttal, I said this ...
I also don't have a problem with lying to someone who's going to die. Bottom line:
Joe acknowledges the contextual nature of virtue -- as against a rationalist, Kantian, floating-abstraction "ideal" of moral action.
Now, granted, you had other points about intimacy and honor that I didn't go into -- but that's because they miss the point that Joe and I are addressing. I'm not trying to start a fight -- but to state a point (and be heard).
Mike, do you see that how you interacted with your aunt is fundamentally different from how Barbara acted with her mother? You could have lied to your aunt. You could have told her that you believed that you were going to see your folks when you die. You didn't. Why?
And here's another thing, if you actually had lied and said that you'd been visited by the Holy Spirit and that the Spirit talked to you and filled you with repentance and you were a True Believer (again?), then would you have shared those details HERE (ie. would you be "proud" enough about it)?
And the point about insisting to the woman that there's no afterlife (ie. about having a fucking, tooth-n-nail pissing contest with someone who's close to dying) is frankly absurd -- and yes, I'm detracting from this point of yours now. Who'd behave like that? I wouldn't do that. Joe wouldn't do that. And it's a straw man to even bring it up -- as if it was my or Joe's position (I dealt sufficiently with this point in post 58).
p.s. On a more gentle note now; my mom had (and sorely needed) a godmother whom we called "Grandma Mary." You see, us kids didn't get a chance to grow up with our real grandmas. One of my grandmas died before I could walk or talk, and the other one passed away early on in my youth.
So when you bring up the point about calling your aunt "Mom" -- it strikes a tender chord with me. Grandma Mary helped raise us kids (hell, she helped raise EVERYONE in the family!), and when she died it was pretty hard on all of us, particularly my mom and little sister. We were so grateful to have her in our lives. And we wished for nothing else than that when she passed away -- she'd go peacefully. Thinking about her can still make my eyes water.
Ed
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