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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 3:54amSanction this postReply
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There is just one problem, Ed. While Christians slaughtered each other over the differing views of the trinity (for example, in the 4th and 5th century), Muslims slaughter over differing view of politics; Islam is inherently a political ideology. Jesus had no extensive political theory, Mohammad embodied political doctrine. The Sunni/Shiite split was a political split. The opposition to democracy in Iraq is an open condemnation of democracy as anti-Muslim – not following the example of Mohammad. When John Locke argued against the Divine Right of Kings, he didn’t have to deal with the baggage of Jesus’ slaughter, conquest, and rule.

 

The Koran desecration is a red herring; the Saudi government regularly shreds Korans of Shiites entering the country. Terrorists in Iraq bomb mosques without worry to Korans. Non-Muslim dictators in Africa do the same without world-wide uproar. As I argue elsewhere, we are being manipulated by our ignorance of Islam.

 

I have a suggestion. As we abide by “international law” and allow detainees to have a Koran, let’s give them an edited version by taking out all the violence and hate (the passages from the Medinan period). This is just what one North Carolina University did when it required all freshmen to read the Koran in 2002. After all, if the hate doesn’t apply anymore, no one should complain, right? Let’s see how many “non-fanatic” Muslims cheer this move and support us and how many Muslims say they want the hate and violence back in. (Besides, Thomas Jefferson edited the Bible and he is still one of the most revered figures to conservatives.)

 

Edit: I was remiss in not acknowledging the validity of the central point of your article: reason and liberty as the antidote to faith, dogma, force and intolerance. That’s the right message, of course. And it is the more important point.

 

(Edited by Jason Pappas on 6/23, 5:23am)


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 8:45amSanction this postReply
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How does one physically flush the Koran down a toilet? Even the smallest book is about 4"x4" (I think Mao's Little Red Book was bigger than that) and that is big enough to plug up any flushable toilet that I know of. Was it flushed page by page? It might be instructive to hear the person who made the allegation describe the process for us.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 9:24amSanction this postReply
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Of course reason is better than mysticism, but that's too broad a statement to win over many converts.  It also doesn't address issues like how there is  more 'dogma' on the secular Left today (i.e. myth of Global Warming, worship of murderers like Che) than on the 'religious' Right who largely seem to pay lip service to mysticism while actually living in the real world. 

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 9:36amSanction this postReply
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I think Mao's Little Red Book was bigger than that (4"x4").

Smaller than that. Perhaps 3"x4" or even 2"x3". There is a picture of 4 year old me holding it in my hand.


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 9:37amSanction this postReply
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Objectivism has always had an across-the-board zero-tolerance policy on faith and mysticism. A significant portion of  the movement seems to have no problem with that. Others deal with it differently.

Unfortunately, across-the-board means blanket judgment. Not all those of faith or mysticism can be pigeonholed into the dangerous zealot or poor lost sheep categories. That's where you get those statements I've seen along the lines that  in religionists, O'ists are dealing with a lower form of evolution that haven't developed the capacity for independent thinking.

Outside of that, I despise those Holy War freaks as much as any sane man.


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:45pmSanction this postReply
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"to make sure that the terrorist fanatics held at Gitmo whose goal it is to kill Americans all had copies of the texts they use to justify their murderous ways".

except that many of those 'terrorist fanatics' were flown home to their country of origin and sent on their merry way after being held without trial or charges being levelled against them.  i.e. caught in the wrong place at the wrong time and sent to Gitmo to rot even though they were innocent.  You can bet your bottom dollar they wouldn't have been released had the US had any evidence against them whatsoever. 


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 1:14pmSanction this postReply
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"Now, dear Hong... you promise to never flush the little red book?..."

"Shì, Señor!"



[Sorry, your Picasso skit infected me obliquely.]


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 1:26pmSanction this postReply
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Oh my, num++, it is you who stole that picture! I was looking for it everywhere! Er, you know, that's copyright material. ;-)

btw, where did you learn your Chinese?  

PS. We never say "Señor". We would say "Savior" or "Great Savior" (Yuck).

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 6/23, 1:39pm)


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 2:03pmSanction this postReply
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Since we're all good communists here, no need to worry about copyrights. :-)

The "Señor" is a holdover from your cute Picasso skit.

As for my Chinese, I learned it from that esteemed little book (aka, a tourist phrasebook by Berlitz). Don't expect me to drawl epistemology in pinyin anytime soon ("Good morning concept formation. How is your Dennett today? Good! I like my coffee hot...")

By the way, there's an official flushing brigade...



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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 5:57pmSanction this postReply
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Um, the link no longer works. Apparently the article has been moved.

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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 6:33pmSanction this postReply
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Peter, click on here: Flushing the Koran or Reason Down the Toilet?  Not here  (Read more...)


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Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 7:18pmSanction this postReply
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I still cannot believe anyone thought this was newsworthy.  "Desecrating" the Koran? Don't say "Merry Christmas" and you can use the Bible as toilet paper if you like - it's OK to offend Christians because they are mostly white and American. But don't flush the Koran in front of terrorists...what crap. Why give it publicity.

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