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Post 60

Friday, July 8, 2005 - 1:22pmSanction this postReply
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James: I am very grateful and taken somewhat aback by the depth of your compliments, gentlemen. Your words inspire me to increase my efforts to live up to them.

Keep 'em coming... :)




Post 61

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 4:09amSanction this postReply
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This is clearly a dated article... but isn't that often the case when one attempts to predict the next twist or turn in bipartisan politics. And maybe there is a good lesson in that.

James Kilbourne was examining apparent trends in the Democratic party that promised a collapse of historic proportions. He said, "We may be witnessing a reasonably rare event in American political history—the collapse of one of the two major political parties."

And then everything changed. Now, we might be 4 months away from a Democratically controlled congress with Obama as the president.

Events change:
At the time of the article there was stronger support, nation-wide, and even among Libertarians and Objectivists for GWB. 9/11 was fresher in our minds. Iraq hadn't worn on us for as long. We hadn't seen the extent of damage done to the economy with inflation, damage to the dollar internationally, fuel prices through the ceiling, the housing collapse or credit market debacle. And the threats to our political freedom weren't in as sharp a focus as they are now.

Stay focused on principles:
James, in a later post, says, "It is dangerous to think for Ayn Rand, but I think she would have hated Bush on the religion question alone, just as she hated Reagan on the abortion issue alone. She would have been wrong again." Well, here we are three years later, and granted that there is a lot of hind-sight involved, but there are now far more people who would say that she would have been RIGHT.

But this isn't about hind-sight or who was right or wrong on the issues of the time. It is about seeing why Rand was so adamant about not getting into bed with this or that politician or party. (I know that James Kilbourne wasn't 'in bed' with GWB, but there IS a degree of adulation in many of the posts of a number of posters... and that should encourage reflection at this point).

Staying Objectivist:
I suspect that we will always do ourselves a serious dis-service to join either of the political parties or their leaders when they are acting from motives and/or principles so far from the core of Objectivist's beliefs.

If we hop aboard a party wagon because they happen to be on what we see as the right decision in an area - no matter how important that area - we set ourselves up for disaster. The events change, but principles are the real drivers of history. The two parties are still both statists - just wearing different stripes. Perhaps the only real change has been the degree to which they are both now naked of rational principle or integrity.

Those who applauded GWB for a strong response to 9/11 find themselves having to disassociate from him in order be his stanch opponents in bringing religion into government, busting the budget, eroding rights, and overseeing the enormous damage to the economy. Politicians shouldn't be applauded (even when their acts are seen as the right ones) when they don't make them for the right reasons. And it is rational to question their motives and their principles given the track record history holds for us.

Post 62

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 8:02amSanction this postReply
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Steve, good points well said.

=========
At the time of the article there was stronger support, nation-wide, and even among Libertarians and Objectivists for GWB. 9/11 was fresher in our minds. Iraq hadn't worn on us for as long. We hadn't seen the extent of damage done to the economy with inflation, damage to the dollar internationally, fuel prices through the ceiling, the housing collapse or credit market debacle. And the threats to our political freedom weren't in as sharp a focus as they are now.
=========

I happen to think that the presidency of GWB (not the man, GWB, the "presidency") did more harm to the cause for Capitalism in this country than any other presidency in all of US history. James Kilbourne believed the opposite, as shown here:

http://rebirthofreason.com/Articles/Kilbourne/Americas_Four_Greatest_Presidents.shtml

One of us, I or him, is more wrong than the other guy is. I say "more wrong" rather than more right to emphasize the fact that -- upon 3rd-party evaluation -- it is easier and more decisive to prove just how wrong someone is (and where). It is the imperfection that we are measuring when we evaluate.

Ed

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Post 63

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 9:34amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

I believe GWB is one the worst presidents we have ever had!

His lack of any awareness of constitutionality is frightening. (His first act was open federal funds to faith-based organizations).

His desire to appoint his personal attorney (what's her name) to the Supreme Court shows a profound lack of the understanding of what someone in his office should be thinking of for that appointment!

He stood by (or encouraged) the movement of America into a country that uses torture. That and the destruction of Habeous Corpus and Probable Cause and not a peep about the expansion of eminent domain, will be the legacy he leaves us in the legal arena. That and the Patriot Act and the little disclaimers he attaches to each bill he signs. Oh, but wait, he did lock up Martha Stewart for lying to a federal officer about law she hadn't broken.

His explosion of the budget (Hell, can you even call it a 'budget' anymore?. The incompetence of his appointees, the ear-marking and corruption that ran rampant during his tenure as head of the Republican party.

His talk of eliminating the welfare state was just that - talk. His only contribution has been in the other direction: prescription medicare - no bigger entitlement exists! Another talking point is privatization in the medical delivery system - but when it's done through regulations that creates mini-medical cartels that spiral the costs out sight - that is NOT free enterprise.

He has done nothing to reign in the continuing growth of lawyers as a special interest group buying laws that turn more and more areas of the economy into nice profitable tort farms.

He has done very little to address the real sources of terrorism - nothing has been done about the Saudi or Iranian funding and support. No leadership in mobilizing moderate Muslims or their intellectuals to take sides and clean house.

His failure to anything at all in the way of leadership on any issue except the violent attempt to export democracy mixed in with a half-assed pursuit of terrorism. Where can I look to see ANY effective leadership on drilling for oil, reversing the funding of ethanol, subsidizing food production, or stopping the taxpayer from being saddled with every bad mortgage or bad loan.

His near religious belief that Democracy is THE answer instead of individual rights or free enterprise.

I don't know if he is a born-again on a crusade, or he just willingly rode the evangelicals to power, accepting their agenda, and then let them run amuck.

I can understand an enormous sense of relief that a strong commander in chief was in power at the time of 9/11 - but what else would that office reasonably call for? I guess we have just had such awful people in office that we forget that commander-in-chief should be strong when called for.

Have we completely forgotten what "Leadership" looks like!






Post 64

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 11:37amSanction this postReply
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We may be missing the collapse of one of the two parties. However, Kilbourne was wrong about the party.


Post 65

Tuesday, August 5, 2008 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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I wish that all of the key Republicans would read this thread.


Post 66

Wednesday, August 6, 2008 - 5:41pmSanction this postReply
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duplicate deleted
(Edited by Ted Keer on 8/06, 5:57pm)


Post 67

Wednesday, August 6, 2008 - 5:50pmSanction this postReply
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Steve, I knew we would disagree at last...on habeas corpus. I can't see that Gore or Kerry would have been better than W. And Bush the father was much worse than Bush the son.

Post 68

Wednesday, August 6, 2008 - 7:08pmSanction this postReply
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Ted, we do disagree on Habeous Corpus, but not on Gore or Kerry - they "might" have been worse - who knows? Bush the elder didn't do as much damage to the country so most of his shortcoming have to do with things he could have done but didn't. I don't see him as worse than GWB.

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