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Post 20

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 7:39pmSanction this postReply
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Luke,
They are reasonably well funded from what I read. (I'm on their mailing list and get flyers from time to time.) Difficult to tell how much impact they can have in the current circumstances, owing to their hard line on atheism. (Not that I fault them for that...)


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Post 21

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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This jackass first makes a personal attack without any evidence, then makes assertions with no evidence at all, and then says he refuses to discuss it.  Why is what he said not political, but what you said political?  I did not see anything "political" in your posts at all.  What a fucking asshole.

Post 22

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 9:31pmSanction this postReply
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Sigh. Too bad it takes more time to refute bad arguments than it takes to generate bad arguments.

At this point I'd just make it clear that the guy hasn't counter-argued any point made in Marty's responses, and that now he is generating a great deal of easily refutable arguments that my time isn't worth continuing the conversation with him. He need only look at what he has written, and if he was an honest man he would fess up and say its nonsense. Then I'd ask if anyone would like to move on and share their reasoning and conclusions on the subject.

Marty, your response?


Going back to his starting message:
As to the Breaking boundaries, building bridges vs. Life post 9/11 debate, there is a fairly obvious solution for Purchase in 2006-07: a program of studies in Arabic language and Islamic culture.

It must now be clear that ignorance is our problem.
This is ridiculous. Islamic people are attacking us because we are ignorant about them? That is horrifying. You barely know me beyond my name. Does that mean I am justified to kill you since you are ignorant about me? No. Ignorance is not the problem. People killing innocent people is the problem. The solution is to search for the best way to defend ourselves, the best way to prevent them from killing us, and then act out the best course of action known.

Learning about their mysticism, how frequently they take showers, and what kind of cloths they wear isn't going to do squat... unless you find some way that information could be used to help defend ourselves.

What he is proposing is a sort of slavery... where they are giving us two options: learn about their culture, or get hit by a jumbo jet. But fundamental Islam is worse then that. They don't just want us to learn about them, they want us to be them, or die. I want to be free!

Post 23

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:31pmSanction this postReply
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But should we let playing fast and loose with the facts infect our culture at Purchase? Can we, as a faculty, let it pass? Shall we turn our heads away from the reduction of history to cheap sloganeering?


He's actually afraid of you, I think. That's a call to arms. He doesn't want to stand on his own two feet.


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Post 24

Saturday, November 26, 2005 - 11:52pmSanction this postReply
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Marty,

Excellent stuff, Bravo.

But I agree with Linz - the bastard is clearly gunning for you. Make sure you never allow him to get into a position where he can hurt your career, because he will if he can. I've encountered Prof. X's kind before; academia attracts respectability-cultivating, grudge-holding fucktards like him the same way honey attracts bees.

People like Prof X don't like being contradicted, especially in public and especially by those they consider to be underlings (or should that be Untermensch - given the subject of his dissertation?) In their mind, you should have either held your tongue or approached them in private, bowing, and tugging your forelock etc.

All that problem-solving, truth- & clarity-seeking scholarship mumbo-jumbo is just a smoke-screen. I'm betting that this guy is just looking for another way to puff himself up even more. He didn't and won't thank you for trying to pop him.

So keep a wary eye on Prof. X. If he has tenure, the only way he's only going to leave the College is in a pine box, he's got plenty of time to torpedo you.

Such is life in academia - one of the reasons I want out, out, OUT of University scientific research!!!

(Edited by Robert Winefield on 11/26, 11:53pm)


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Post 25

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:02amSanction this postReply
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What he is proposing is a sort of slavery...

He's proposing, Dhimmitude.


Post 26

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:04amSanction this postReply
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And I agree in part with Prof X and his call for more classes in Islamic culture and language.

[Pause for people to pick themselves up off the floor]

The CIA, FBI, MI6 etc. urgently need agents, code-breakers, and analysts capable of understanding Arabic and infiltrating Islamic cultures to conduct espionage, sabotage and assassination.

I'd love to hear what Professor X would say to this point ;-)


Post 27

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 7:09amSanction this postReply
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Richard Wiig wrote:
What he is proposing is a sort of slavery...

He's proposing, Dhimmitude.
Could someone please explain "Dhimmitude"?


Post 28

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 9:04amSanction this postReply
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A small point. Professors do not work on dissertations -- graduate students do.

Post 29

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 9:09amSanction this postReply
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Dhimmi is a person who is living in a Muslim society and is tolerated but given second class status. Thus Christians and Jews have Dhimmi status in Muslim lands. If Bin Laden's pack of animals conquered the west, we would all be Dhimmis and be subject to harsh legislation.

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Post 30

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 10:15amSanction this postReply
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Luke Setzer, I have taken this from Dhimmiwatch. Rather than use my own words; I have to rush off to work. I hope it's keeping within ettiquette to do so:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/#

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.

The dhimmi attitude of chastened subservience has entered into Western academic study of Islam, and from there into journalism, textbooks, and the popular discourse. One must not point out the depredations of jihad and dhimmitude; to do so would offend the multiculturalist ethos that prevails everywhere today.

But in this era of global terrorism this silence and distortion has become deadly. Therefore Dhimmi Watch seeks to bring public attention to the plight of the dhimmis, and by doing so, to bring them justice.

 

IT IS LONG PAST time to bring the world's attention to a global scandal.

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims, primarily Jews and Christians. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the legal superstructure that global jihadists are laboring to restore everywhere in the Islamic world, and wish ultimately to impose on the entire human race.

If dhimmis complained about their inferior status, institutionalized humiliation, or poverty, their masters voided their contract and regarded them as enemies of Islam, fair game as objects of violence. Consequently, dhimmis were generally cowed into silence and worse. It was almost unheard-of to find dhimmis speaking out against their oppressors; to do so would have been suicide. For centuries dhimmi communities in the Islamic world learned to live in peace with their Muslim overlords by acquiescing to their subservience. Some even actively identified with the dominant class, and became strenuous advocates for it.

Spearheaded by dhimmi academics and self-serving advocacy groups, that same attitude of chastened subservience has entered into Western academic study of Islam, and from there into journalism, school textbooks, and the popular discourse. One must not point out the depredations of jihad and dhimmitude; to do so would offend the multiculturalist ethos that prevails everywhere today. To do so would endanger chances for peace and rapprochement between civilizations all too ready to clash.

But in this era of global terrorism it must be said: this silence, this distortion, has become deadly. Before 9/11 it was easy to ignore and whitewash dhimmitude, but the atrocities changed the situation forever. In jihads throughout history, untold millions have died. Tens of millions have been uprooted from their homes. Tens of millions have been stripped of their cultural identity. To continue to gloss over the destruction wrought by jihad ideology and its attendant evil of dhimmitude is today to play into the hands of jihadists, who have repeatedly vowed to dhimmify the West and destroy any recalcitrant elements. While jihadist groups, even with their global diffusion, are not strong enough to realize this goal by themselves, they have a potent and destructive ally, a genuine fifth column, in the dhimmi academics and dhimmi journalists they have recruited in the West. They have succeeded in confusing millions in the West into mistaking honesty and truthfulness for bigotry, and self-defense for oppression.

Before it's too late for Western Europe and the United States, which gave birth to the traditions of freedom and equality of rights for all that shine today as lights in the entire world, this must be stopped. Therefore Dhimmi Watch seeks to bring public attention to:

  • The plight of the dhimmis, an immense but almost completely ignored ongoing scandal that continues in Muslim countries today;
  • The plight of women under Sharia provisions, similar to conditions imposed on dhimmis, in the denial of equal rights and dignity;
  • Slavery in Islamic lands, which continues today, justified by Sharia-'s dhimmi codes;
  • The integral role of jihad and dhimmitude ideology in global terrorism today;
  • The license that academic and journalistic whitewashes of dhimmitude gives to radical jihadist enemies of human rights for all.

Dhimmi Watch fights to ensure that deeds done in the darkness for so long will not continue to be done. The light of world attention is anathema to the proponents of jihad and dhimmitude: we have seen in recent years that women sentenced to stoning for adultery, often victims of rape unjustly accused thanks to Sharia laws disallowing rape victims' testimony, were freed following international outcry. Dhimmi Watch will seek to provoke similar, continuous and increasing outcry wherever and whenever the Sharia's institutionalized injustices threaten dhimmis and women.

May the truth prevail.


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Post 31

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:34amSanction this postReply
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     Can we say that today's 'multicultural'-oriented academia is sliding more and more towards inculcating a self-accepted (and implicitly taught) Dhimmitude? Indeed, possibly even the mainstream media (with exceptions) itself?

LLAP
J:D

P.S: Strange that Dhimmitude (actually 'Dhimmi') is, on-line, found ONLY in the Wipedia; but, it's a very comprehensive and clear explanation of the term.


Post 32

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:53amSanction this postReply
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He's proposing, Dhimmitude. – Richard. 

Quite true! Islam is a supremacist ideology that sees non-Muslims as less than human. Christians and Jews, as long as they accept second-class status and grovel before their Muslim rulers, are speared the death sentence that is required for polytheists, pagans, and atheists (including us, obviously.) Bat Ye’or has devoted 40 years of research to the study of the life of a Dhimmis under Islam. Also, see The Myth of Islamic Tolerance.

 

Dhimmi-whipped academics, politicians, and pundits believe the problem is Islamophobia. Apparently, for people like Kofi Annan and Jimmy Carter, we are the problem. According to this line of reasoning, we must reform and understand their grievances; and must convince the Muslims not to hate us.

 

 


Post 33

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 11:58amSanction this postReply
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Marty - you write, "If Bin Laden's pack of animals conquered the west, we would all be Dhimmis and be subject to harsh legislation."

No, not all. I and the other Atheists here would be killed.


Post 34

Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:03pmSanction this postReply
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John, you write: "Strange that Dhimmitude (actually 'Dhimmi') is, on-line, found ONLY in the Wipedia..."

Google comes up with over 280,000 hits on "Dhimmitude."


Post 35

Monday, November 28, 2005 - 9:26amSanction this postReply
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Professor XXXX says:
I think it is inappropriate to use the List-Serve to stump for political positions unless the emphasis can stay on debate based in substantial and rational arguments.
Then, in the same post, he says:
Intentionally obscuring the historical record in order to accomplish political ends is, sadly, typical of our government.
Apparently his views aren't political positions!
Glenn



Post 36

Monday, November 28, 2005 - 10:44amSanction this postReply
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Thanks all. I appreciate the encouragement and ideas posted in this thread.


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Post 37

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 1:45amSanction this postReply
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My response, just posted on the faculty list-serve:

Let's get away from the juvenile tone set by XXXX (and the other philosopher kings) in his last post. It has a chilling effect on free speech and calls for a consensus in a perhaps cowardly way. (Some philosophers think that truth is established by consensus.) It did sound like he was calling for help to fight me.

 

He contradicted himself when he criticized my political points while attacking our government's policy and being political himself. He had the temerity to accuse me of purposeful deceit to make a "political" point.

 

Many posts on this list-serve have been political. Besides, politics is a branch of philosophy and is the business of faculty. Furthermore, the thrust of his arguments sounds something like, "not all Muslims think this way," or "not all intellectuals before WWII thought this way," and misses the point entirely.

 

I maintain that Muslims, to the extent that they are Muslims, embrace an irrational, supremacist, violent religion featuring jihad, dhimmi status, enforcement of Sharia and Hadith, terrible treatment of women, slavery, and an anti-Western mentality. PC intellectuals try to deny this and conveniently focus on the self-purifying interpretation of jihad, denying history in the process. While it is important to study their culture, it is also important to take steps to protect the west in general and the USA in particular from the real threat of pre-enlightenment Islam armed with modern weapons. The idea that more awareness of Islam will lead to our getting along better does conjure up an image of an unrealistic ivory tower philosopher who is willing to study the rope he is about to be hanged with (sorry Lenin – nothing here about the capitalist selling you the rope). He is probably a pacifist – one who is willing to fight with anyone but the enemy.

 

 While academia has a generally anti-US and anti-Israel bent, the problem with modern philosophy is much deeper.

 

Many Western "thinkers" from Ancient Greece to the present mistrusted reason and embraced variants of mysticism, tradition, feelings and the aid of loose analogy that could appear to justify just about anything (Plato's "the good," his fascist state, his world of universals, …). This led them (as it did Augustine) toward reliance on faith and authority – to wit early Christianity, Rousseau's enforcement of the general will, the divine right of kings, Nazism and Communism.

 

Postmodernists such as Michael Foucault, Richard Rorty, Stanley Fish, Jean-Francois Lyotard, Frank Lentricchia, and Andrea Dworkin advocated the most irrational ideas I have ever read, involving vicious attacks on reason, Enlightenment values, the ubiquitous white, male oppressor. Under the influence of the German counter-enlightenment and the slightly earlier mystic philosopher Kant (who is hailed as a champion of reason even after writing, "I have here therefore found it necessary to deny knowledge in order to make room for faith.") These and countless other philosophers such as the flower smelling, 19th century English romanticists abandoned us and, by robbing us of reason, rendered humankind prey to an assortment of incredibly ridiculous assumptions which led to the horrors of the 20th century.

 

Hegel's denial of the law of non-contradiction and his introduction of the deterministic march of ideas, his insinuating a collective awareness, his equation of being and non-being, coupled with Kant's dutiful ethics devoid of happiness, coupled again with the counter-enlightenment emphasis on blood and collective identity finally did its work. Weimar was a sewer of nauseating ideas floating around – courtesy of irrational philosophers (including Marx) – and it was just a matter of time before the Nazis were able to do take over.

 

Thanks Hegel, Schleirmacher, Kierkegaard, Schopenhaur, Nietzche, Heidegger. You betrayed us. Wrote Hegel:

1. "A single person, I need hardly say, is something subordinate, and as such, he must dedicate himself to the ethical whole. Hence if the state claims life, the individual must surrender it."

2. "All the worth which the human being possesses, all spiritual reality, he possesses only through the State."

3. "The State is the Divine Idea as it exists on Earth."

4. "The march of God in the world, that is what the state is."

 

I could go on and on, but you see where this is leading: Heil Hitler!

 

Let's keep a wary eye on today's intellectuals of the left, of deconstruction, of postmodernism.

 

Let's be careful when the ivory tower, so out of touch with reality, sells "lofty" ideals often of a self-debasing and pacifistic nature. ("9/11 is our fault… if only we understood Islam … the world is right on disliking the ugly American businessman … we are not nice to Cuba and other totalitarian societies … we don't give enough aid to third world countries …)

 

Let's watch PC for its insistence that we genuflect in front of our enemies – foreign and domestic – that we don't offend anyone by telling the truth or suggesting ideas that some may find offensive. We should let everyone in and give them free services paid for by the poor American tax-payer. We shouldn't screen Muslims coming to America extra carefully. The list goes on ad infinitum.

 

Let's be wary of the intellectuals who have absolutely nothing good to say about the tremendous amount of wealth in America – a never-before-seen market of goods and services. All I hear from them is criticism of corporations, commercialism on Christmas, the greed of the profit motive, the imperialism, racism, and sexism of the west, the refusal to recognize the wisdom of our founding fathers and of enlightenment promoters of reason, individualism, and limited government.

 

Let's be wary of those who are blind to the strengths of our culture – the culture that ended slavery, recognized women as equals, invented and marketed a host of wealth-producing things ranging from electric lighting, cars, planes, etc. , the culture that finally set the individual free from oppressive government. How about a bit of common sense? How about not limiting one's vision of America to the sins of its past and focusing instead on our incredible strengths? Today's intellectuals will forgive Germany, Russia and China for its grave sins – while America will be forever guilty!

 

The price of being an academic is eternal, around-the-clock vigilance, and clear, objective, reasoning that rises above nit-picky, tunnel vision, west-bashers.

 

 

 

  

      



Post 38

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 2:34amSanction this postReply
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Marty,
I can see you're putting up a good fight in one of the last bastions of the far left - academia. It's really the opposite of preaching to the converted. I wish you well.
Jillian.


Post 39

Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 7:32amSanction this postReply
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Bravo Marty!!!


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