RoR: Forum

Joe, this is a beautiful, succint message. It has done more to demonstrate for me "why" I should be an activist than anything else. In fact, I admit that before I actually wasn't sure that I was "in" for this activism idea. But you make a good case.

Post 1

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 5:42am

Joe wrote:

This is one of the reasons I intend to push Rebirth of Reason in the direction of activism. By focusing on our mutual goals, we fight together for a better world. We aren't competing for popularity or seeing who can win arguments the best. We don't need to belittle one another. We benefit from finding someone else who knows something we don't. We benefit from someone who catches a mistake we make so that we can be more effective in the future.

Hear, hear! I look forward to the local clubs becoming an integral part of this productive purpose.

Post 2

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 5:46am

Joe,

Like Luke, I wanted to quote this passage:

This is one of the reasons I intend to push Rebirth of Reason in the direction of activism. By focusing on our mutual goals, we fight together for a better world. We aren't competing for popularity or seeing who can win arguments the best. We don't need to belittle one another. We benefit from finding someone else who knows something we don't. We benefit from someone who catches a mistake we make so that we can be more effective in the future.[emphasis mine]

YES! Especially the part I placed in italics. You've echoed my thoughts and posts on this matter. Thanks once again!

Ethan

Post 3

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 5:56am

Reshaping the world?
Joe, when we talk about reshaping the world, which world are we talking about.
My world, your world, my mother in law's world?
Does a common world can really exists?.
You see joe, I think the world has been reshaped many times before.
It will be reshaped, again,and again, and again.
We will have future hitlers, we will have future profets, we will have future Joe Rowlands.
I have alway believed that good things are possible only on a small scale.
Ayn Rand was not interested to change the world!
I think that man is capable only to change his own world.

Post 4

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 6:24am

Ciro,

You can only directly control your life and choices, but spreading ideas to others about living correctly can make a difference. Look at the renaissance! Changes like that don't happen by themselves. Convincing others of the benefits of living properly and accepting reality works to our own benefit. It's certain that living a virtuous and efficacious life sends a message in and of itself. Some people have no interest in taking an active role in changing ideas, and that's fine, but for those of us who do, we recognize and enjoy the challenge of changing things. If Ayn Rand thought changing the world were a waste or impossible she probably never would have written Galt's speech.

Ethan

Post 5

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 6:50am

Ciro, when Ayn Rand was asked about the prophetic quality of ATLAS SHRUGGED, she said she wrote it so that it WOULDN'T be prophetic! :)

Post 6

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 6:50am

Phycological needs are not automatic they must be created by man.
Do you think that all men have the same psychological needs?
This is only possible trough a strumentalization of an individual.
Ciro

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 12/05, 6:55am)

Post 7

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 6:57am

Ciro,

The basic psychological need of a man (every man) is to recognize reality. While our specific interests and pursuits are each our own, our ability to live in the world, and live with others requires many common things.

Ethan

Post 8

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 6:58am

You can only directly control your life and choices, but spreading ...ideas to others about living correctly can make a difference
I think my way of living is correctly!
So you are saying that if you start living my way it makes a difference?

Post 9

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:00am

Oh yes, reality, reality, do you know how many facet reality has?
Which reality are you talking about.

Post 10

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:09am

Ciro,

Which reality are you talking about.

I think we are not connecting on some basic level here. The content of your last two posts could be taken to suggest your acceptance of Subjectivism or the Primacy of Conciousness, but I don't think that's what you mean. I think you're talking about the different interests and values people have in their lives, in other words, they look at life and the world through the context of what they value and pursue. Underlying that, however, are a whole bunch of ideas central to Objectivism. I'm not suggesting that your enjoyment of running a restaurant means that everyone should do that. If you really beleive what you are saying, then you probably have no interest in activism, and by your very aown rguments, you shouldn't be arguing against other people who do want to be activists

Post 11

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:15am

Excellent post, Joe. I applaud your efforts. I especially liked this line:

There are methods of interacting on a forum that are not zero-sum.

Thanks,
Glenn

Post 12

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:27am

This is right Joe. I hope it is possible. Likening it to the initiation of force is particularly apt. We should not be threatened by ideas or by challenges to our ideas, nor should disagreement be disagreeable. Debate should serve to sharpen our focus not punish those who dare to disagree.

Post 13

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:30am

Ethan wrote:

The basic psychological need of a man (every man) is to recognize reality.

As a corollary, each of us needs to control that which falls within our control and to accept the metaphysically given. Reason empowers us not only to recognize reality but to rearrange what nature gives us to suit our life-affirming purposes. Some of those purposes will be highly individualistic (such as running a restaurant) while others will be highly universal (such as creating and defending a free nation).

Post 14

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:31am

I am not arguing, every body on this forum, even you Ethan, had something to say about the many flaws among objectivists.
If you want to change the world, in whose name you start to approach people.
John Galt's.?
Ayn Rand was not honest, and we know that!

Post 15

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:34am

Luke,

I agree! The axioms at the base of Objectivism are inter-related and you can't accept just one of them. They are all fundamental. In my posts I'm trying to understand what Ciro is saying, and point out things that are common to everyone.

Ethan

Post 16

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:35am

Ciro,

In whose name? I'm not sure what you mean by your use of this phrase, could you explain?

Ethan

(Edited by Ethan Dawe on 12/05, 7:36am)

Post 17

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:39am

Some of those purposes will be highly individualistic (such as running a restaurant) while others will be highly universal (such as creating and defending a free nation).

Well, I guess if my parents were richer I would have wanted to be highly universal.
Only I had to do was to spread Ideas, with someone's money!

Post 18

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:44am

In whose name?
Do you want me to name all of them?

(Edited by Ciro D'Agostino on 12/05, 7:49am)

Post 19

Monday, December 5, 2005 - 7:48am