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Post 0

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 7:03amSanction this postReply
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As usual, Joe, the clarity of your writing is exemplary.

Sam




Post 1

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 10:41amSanction this postReply
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Is this woman a biologist or does she work in some other field?

Ted



Post 2

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 5:51pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you Sam. I appreciate the compliment.

Ted, you're the second person to ask me that after I told the story. What's the thinking? Is it that biologists are prone to this error? Or that irrational women are prone to biology? I'm curious.

And yes, she was a biologist.



Post 3

Monday, August 13, 2007 - 7:35pmSanction this postReply
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Positivism and Compartmentalization

No, actually, a recent "study" showed that Biologists tend more than any other type of scientist to be outright atheists. Perhaps because physicists deal with phenomena that are unknowable on some scale, they may tend to seek a prime mover. In that study, actually a survey published in American Scientist, there were a few theists, no deists, and mostly atheists among biologists. Most physicists also described themselves as atheists, but there were some deists and about an equal number of theists.

Biology from a third person perspective doesn't really have any of the cosmological mysteriousness left in it. The spontaneous origin of life from unguided chemical processes is seen as hardly controversial. Evolution is well established as a fact and as a developed theoretical structure. People who don't know any biology might find life mysterious and seek a creator, but their is no need to posit anything like a prime mover for biologists.

It seems like your acquaintance has been well trained in Popper's positivism, and self-trained in compartmentalization. But positivism is long out of fashion in philosophy. The you can't know anything for certain statement is self-refuting, and you'd think a Biologist would know that. Unfortunately, the best way to cure a skeptic is to drive on the wrong side of the road with him as a passenger. The attempted cure may not be worth the results.

As I told you in our last chat session (Plug for the Feature!) there is a lot that Objectivists should learn from science and even more that scientists need from Objectivism.

Ted Keer



Post 4

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 9:44amSanction this postReply
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Was the following a slip: "Through a process of reasoning, you're trying to determine the validity of the premise"? The reason I ask is that a premise is either true or false (or not known as either), but it is arguments that are valid. Now Rand uses the term "validate" to mean "determine the truth of," but this is, I think, an infelicity on her part. As to the substance, your friend seems to be influenced by the Popperian idea of fallabilism as far as knowledge is concerned. This is a long story, somewhat akin to the pragmatists' road to their idea of practical belief. None have had the benefit of Objectivism's--and J. L. Austin's--idea of contextual knowledge.




Post 5

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 1:07pmSanction this postReply
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Extreme skepticism is itself a form of dogmatism. It radically claims that knowledge is unknowable or fundamentally unreal. It wildly and blindly says that truth isn't true or doesn't even exist. It's a form of nihilism -- and very inappropriate for a scientist.   



Post 6

Tuesday, August 14, 2007 - 10:15pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Tibor, I wasn't trying to use it in the valid-argument/true-premise way.  By the way, what do you think about an explanation.  Is that something that is true, or something that is valid?

As for the fallibilism, I hesitate a little.  I can agree that there's clearly an influence and the argument does sound like she's taking that position, I just don't think it's primary.  It seemed that it was all just an excuse.  She was just as willing to latch onto subjective reality, or any other premise, to support her desire never to be sure of a conviction.

Kyrel, I agree that it is inappropriate for a scientist (or anyone, for that matter!).  This article was an explanation of why.




Post 7

Wednesday, August 15, 2007 - 2:45amSanction this postReply
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I tend to give benefit of doubt about what motivates folks and in my discipline this cautionary stance often has as its origin the dislike of the Platonic-Cartesian idealist view of what knowledge must be. History shows that the truths produced by some had to be revised, modified, reconceived in time; so many refuse to make any commitments. They aren't epistemologists, anyway, let alone contextualists.As to explanations, I would credit the one's that succeed as, well, successful or good or sound, while those that fail as the opposite. (BTW, in Hungarian, "to explain" is literally "to render into Hungarian"--"elmagyarazni.")



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