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Post 0

Monday, February 4, 2008 - 7:10amSanction this postReply
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Corrected link:
http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-winter/moral-vs-universal-health-care.asp

Ethan or Joe, can you fix the link in the article? Thanks.


Post 1

Monday, February 4, 2008 - 11:29amSanction this postReply
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Hi Merlin,

All set!

Ethan


Post 2

Wednesday, February 6, 2008 - 7:28amSanction this postReply
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Here is a side-by-side comparison of the health care and insurance proposals of McCain, Clinton, and Obama:
http://www.health08.org/sidebyside_results.cfm?c=5&c=11&c=16
The Kaiser Family Foundation is related to Kaiser Permanente, a huge HMO.

The projected numbers in my article are arguably low, for reasons other than given. Another page on the Kaiser Family Foundation's website shows employer-sponsored health insurance premiums increased an average 10.57% per year 2000-2006. Substituting that for the 7% used in the article puts the numbers at $88*1.1057^5 = $145 (versus $123) in 5 years and $88*1.1057^10 = $240 (versus $173) in 10 years, compared to $100 in the base year.


Post 3

Wednesday, February 6, 2008 - 9:06amSanction this postReply
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Merlin, you're article still has me confused as to how Blue Cross Blue Shield actually make money. Can you elaborate?

Post 4

Wednesday, February 6, 2008 - 10:44amSanction this postReply
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Jonathan, I'm not clear on what you mean by "actually make money." If you mean "make a profit" in the usual accounting sense, it would only apply to some like WellPoint (NYSE, symbol WLP). WLP is a publicly traded for-profit insurer and part of Blue Cross - Blue Shield. See here for more on BC-BS. Most BC-BS companies are non-profits.

In either case, most of their revenues come from premiums collected from employers, associations, and individual subscribers. For example, here you can find financial statements for BC-BS of Florida. Over 90% of its revenues are from premiums for health insurance. (You can also see the bulk of their outgo -- 78% in 2006 -- is for "claims and medical expenses.")

Incidentally, concerning the additional $463 (= $5410 - $4947) in revenue in 2006, my guess is these are fees collected from large employers who "self-insure." BC-BS provides no insurance; it just handles the paperwork and money flows.

Here you can see financial statements (click for popup) for BC-BS of IL. In 2006 nearly all revenues were premiums. Over 81% of premiums went to claims, i.e. to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers.

Here  you can see the 2006 financial statement for WellPoint. Page 30 shows most revenues are premiums and a high ratio of benefit expense (payments to health care providers) to premiums. The revenue item "administrative fees" is probably from "self-insured" plans, like I said for BC-BS of Florida.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 2/07, 7:01am)


Post 5

Thursday, February 7, 2008 - 6:34amSanction this postReply
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Here is an op-ed in today's WSJ about HillaryCare and ObamaCare.

The op-ed mentions the famous "Harry and Louise" ads that helped doom HillaryCare in 1994. The ads were sponsored by the Health Insurance Association of America. Most health insurers are members, including the Blues. You can guess who has the most input to HIAA political positions. You can bet their resistance to HillaryCare was not because they wanted a real free market, but because they favored the status quo, much characterized by rent seeking.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 2/07, 7:30am)


Post 6

Friday, February 8, 2008 - 4:15pmSanction this postReply
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"Conform or starve."

Hillary won't admit to the ultimatum yet to come:

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Rodham Clinton said Sunday she might be willing to garnish the wages of workers who refuse to buy health insurance to achieve coverage for all Americans.
 
The New York senator has criticized presidential rival Barack Obama for pushing a health plan that would not require universal coverage. Clinton has not always specified the enforcement measures she would embrace, but when pressed on ABC's "This Week," she said: "I think there are a number of mechanisms" that are possible, including "going after people's wages, automatic enrollment."

Here's the news item

It's not clear what she would do with those people who refuse to enroll but are self employed or retired  — put them in jail?

Sam


Post 7

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 7:17amSanction this postReply
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In the article I did not say anything about jurisdiction. This post will.

Regulation of the business of insurance is by state governments, not the federal goverment. It has been that way for decades and is enshrined in the McCarran-Ferguson Act. (Insurance companies are subject to employment laws and so forth. "Business of insurance" refers to underwriting, pricing, policy provisions, sales and claims practices, and financial oversight.)

If the federal government tried to legislate on the business of health insurance, it would be an assault on both the McCarran-Ferguson Act and the Tenth Amendment of the Bill of Rights. State governments would take it as a threat to the regulation of all kinds of insurance and the existence of their state insurance departments. 

This is not to say that any attempt by the federal government to regulate the pricing and policy provisions of health insurance will fail, but it would face a huge "turf war." This consideration strengthens my point that the easiest and most effective way for the federal government to control health care costs is by price controls on doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 2/13, 7:17am)


Post 8

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 7:31amSanction this postReply
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"This is not to say that any attempt by the federal government to regulate the pricing and policy provisions of health insurance will fail, but it would face a huge "turf war." This consideration strengthens my point that the easiest and most effective way for the federal government to control health care costs is by price controls on doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers."

Merlin, care to provide some links of effective government-instituted price controls that didn't eventually catastrophically fail? Did you think it was a mistake when Nixon's price controls on gasoline were rescinded? How do you feel about Hugo Chavez's attempts to impose price controls to prevent the soaring inflation caused by him printing money? Do you think Robert Mugabe's price controls will end well?

The federal government has no business providing or controlling health care at all, per the Tenth Amendment, and that includes price controls. Are you suggesting that the Tenth is quaint and obsolete?

Post 9

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 7:54amSanction this postReply
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Jim,

Regarding post 8 I think your questions make unwarranted assumptions about my personal views. Please reread the article to get the context. For example I said price controls were "draconian and disastrous." Advocacy and analysis are two different things.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 2/13, 8:03am)


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Post 10

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 9:46amSanction this postReply
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Merlin -- I jumped into the discussion without RTFA.  Rookie mistake.  After actually reading your article, I agree that the particular quote, isolated out of the total context of what you were saying, appears to be advocacy when it in fact it's intended to be descriptive.  My apologies.  Personally, I would have tried to phrase that sentence to make it clearer what your POV was on price controls -- I think you were trying to say that they might appear to work in the very short term, but longer-term they would fail.

As a former health insurer married to a physician, though, I must take issue with what I think is your perception of how insurance companies work.  (If I've misunderstood this, too, please let me know.)  For example, this:

The truth is much nearer the exact opposite -- insurance companies, especially HMOs and PPOs, are simply collection agents for doctors, nurses, and hospitals!

This appears to assume that insurance companies act simply as claims processing agencies.  The reality is more complex.  While many larger employer groups do use insurance companies primarily as claims processing agencies, with control over physician charges being a secondary effect, PPOs generally dictate to a great degree what physicians may charge.  I used to work for Blue Shield of California, which had only a 2% market share, so there doctors had some degree of negotiating power over how much they got paid for a given procedure.  If a doctor thought they were being gouged, they could threaten to quit treating BSC patients.  In Hawaii, though, the local Blues plan has acquired a near-monopolistic control of the PPO market, and so they can be pretty high-handed about how much they deign to pay for a given procedure.  Your only practical recourse as a doctor is to pack up and move to a different state, which is happening slowly but surely, resulting in a growing crisis of access to care.  Obviously, much of this nastiness is due to government meddling in giving employers tax breaks for offering health insurance coverage, thus propping up the health insurers instead of having patients go directly to doctors and paying out of their pocket, with a high-deductible insurance to cover catastrophic stuff.

HMOs don't function at all like collection agencies for doctors.  They employ doctors and pay them a set salary, so there is no direct connection between how busy a doctor is and how much they get paid.  There is an indirect connection, as an underperforming doctor may get the boot or not get hired in the first place, and there may be some bonus pay for doctors finding a way to not treat patients, or treat them less, but HMOs are collection agencies for themselves, with doctors (and patients) just being an annoying drag on their bottom line that they try to minimize.


Post 11

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 9:52amSanction this postReply
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yeah Jim he was not espousing said controls, but speculating on how the Feds may decide to try it...

Post 12

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 11:53amSanction this postReply
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In my article:
The truth is much nearer the exact opposite -- insurance companies, especially HMOs and PPOs, are simply collection agents for doctors, nurses, and hospitals!
Jim H. replied:
This appears to assume that insurance companies act simply as claims processing agencies.  The reality is more complex.  While many larger employer groups do use insurance companies primarily as claims processing agencies, with control over physician charges being a secondary effect, PPOs generally dictate to a great degree what physicians may charge.
The sentence in my article was a response to Hillary Clinton, who said her plan would allow doctors, nurses, and hospitals to get back into the business of taking care of people instead of working for insurance companies. Granted, insurers do more than process claims. They enroll insureds, enroll health care providers, handle transactions, write policy provisions and explanatory materials, set premiums, keep records, handle inquiries, etc. Nevertheless, typically more than 80% of the money coming in goes out in payments to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers. My calling them "collection agents" was based on this financial reality.

Your third sentence describes "self-insured plans" in which the insurance company provides no insurance.
HMOs don't function at all like collection agencies for doctors.  They employ doctors and pay them a set salary, so there is no direct connection between how busy a doctor is and how much they get paid.
Again, typically more than 80% of the money coming in goes out in payments to doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers. Your second sentence also describes only one type of HMO -- the staff model. There are other types -- see here -- and most HMO's now use the network model.

In any case, Jim, I appreciate the comments. There are lots of people who are largely ignorant of the facts and easily fall for the demagoguery of politicians (and their supporters).


Post 13

Wednesday, February 13, 2008 - 12:11pmSanction this postReply
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Merlin -- sounds like we're pretty much in agreement on this issue.

Re: this quote: "The sentence in my article was a response to Hillary Clinton, who said her plan would allow doctors, nurses, and hospitals to get back into the business of taking care of people instead of working for insurance companies."

Hillary would have doctors de facto work for the government, which isn't really in the business of taking care of people so much as doing unpleasant things to people and expecting them to pay for the privilege and be grateful for that "help".

I know a lot of doctors, and not one of them would say they work for insurance companies, unless they were trying for sarcastic effect.  They consider insurance companies an enemy that has gotten ahold of their patient's money and who are largely in the business of trying to find creative ways of not paying bills they are contractually obligated to pay.


Post 14

Thursday, February 14, 2008 - 6:16amSanction this postReply
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http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120292255343965679.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
Private insurers presumed guilty of trying to constrain health care costs.
Not one word about Medicare and Medicaid capping payments to health care providers at even lower amounts.
Insurers are caught between a rock and a hard place. The New York attorney general's office and health care providers want the insurers to pay out more in claim costs, while the New York Insurance Department regulates premiums and coverage. The New York attorney general's office is very anti-business. It was previously led by Eliot Spitzer, now governor.

(Edited by Merlin Jetton on 2/15, 6:12am)


Post 15

Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 6:46amSanction this postReply
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Here is more fraudulant advertising about health care costs by Hillary Clinton.

"In the California primary debate, Sen. Clinton claimed a Rand study shows that savings due to information technology could pay for half of her $110-billion-a-year universal health coverage plan. What the Rand study actually says is that information technology will produce savings, estimated at $77 billion a year, but not until year 15 -- and not necessarily for the thousands of doctors and hospitals who are forced to spend $125 billion (Rand's estimate) up front for the equipment." (link)

'Rand' means Rand Corporation, a think tank.  :-)


Post 16

Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 3:56pmSanction this postReply
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Hillary did actually claim to go through an "Ayn Rand phase" when she was young.  :)  Clearly she didn't learn anything from that!


Post 17

Wednesday, February 20, 2008 - 3:58pmSanction this postReply
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Hillary Rodham was a "Goldwater Girl". Amazing.

Bob Kolker


Post 18

Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 4:55amSanction this postReply
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Massachusetts universal health care plan presages national universal health care plans proposed by Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121132884197208937.html?mod=hps_us_at_glance_opinion


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Post 19

Wednesday, March 14, 2012 - 2:05pmSanction this postReply
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I wrote in the article more than 4 years ago:
The doctors, hospitals, and other health care providers can continue to operate largely exempt from competition. You can be sure they will have plenty of input and influence in government policy.
 Now see this from The Atlas Society.


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