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Post 0

Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 4:53pmSanction this postReply
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Great article. I absolutely loved this essay. I have a comment regarding this:

If one understands that the human being has a self that can flourish only by being alert to the world, including other people, a self-enhancing moral code will leave plenty of room for generosity, kindness, compassion, without being self-sacrificing, self-denying.
The above, in a sense, could be construed as saying that generosity, kindness and compassion are mutually exclusive to "a self-enhancing moral code" -- i.e., that they are entirely separate "ingredients" -- though they could be mixed together without problems (because there's "room" to mix them together). But if anyone took this line of reasoning, then one should ask them outright if a human self is not enhanced by generosity, kindness and compassion.

For me, the answer is clear. Generosity, kindness, and compassion can enhance me (and have). Therefore, they are not separate from a self-enhancing morality. They may not be the top virtue, nor the reason for morality, but they are not items exclusive to an altruistic code, either. Altruism doesn't encompass them, it bastardizes them.

Egoism (enlightened egoism) is the morality that truly encompasses generosity, kindness, and compassion.

Ed


Post 1

Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 7:25pmSanction this postReply
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Excellent article.

I suspect that the natural appeal to a way of living that is ethical and right AND produces happiness is the reason that Evangelical Christianity enjoys such popularity. Because that is the way that it is perceived (even though we know its beliefs and values don't actually fit reality or produce happiness if taken literally).

Another reason it enjoys popularity might be because the rest of the modern philosophies look so morally twisted and painful or barren. It is natural for man to want to be happy and to believe it is their uncontested right. People also want certainty, which can be the product of a code of ethics. And modern philosophy tells man the only certainty is that he can not be certain - not of right or wrong, good or bad, true or false.

People sense the relief and the value in a way of living that is open, honest, and where values are integrated to ones actions and where a degree of certainty is normal. They think that is what Evangelical Christianity is... and its actual practice has probably been adapting or evolving in recent years, at least on the surface, and in spite of the totality of its scriptural base, to not get in the way of enjoying sex (as long as you aren't gay) or making money or having fun. (I'm clearly no expert at the different varieties of Evangelical Christianity or the different psychologies involved in adopting it, and I'm sure there are versions out there more suitable to people who are miserable by nature, but I have seen what look like groups of people who are happy cheer-leaders for a feel-good version of Christianity. I suspect that it is evolving by being looser in its restrictions, except for a few deal-breakers, in order to give people more happiness on earth.)

In a way, it is as if our culture, which has moved into the modern world where religion has been exposed in the learned world as mysticism, but where there is no modern set of ethics to replace mans' need for an uplifting, productive, happiness-producing code of ethics, finds itself taking the old code of ethics and in a very non-scientific way, reworking it in hopes of meeting the need for a code of ethics - the need, which is misunderstood to be a small set of rituals, a small set of faith-based beliefs, a few good rules (be honest, for example) and you will deserve to be happy. This gives people a reason to sanction themselves - a set of beliefs they think are right and that they honor and that makes them feel good. This last part, this part of feeling happy because they honor their beliefs (like being honest) is a good thing - integrity is a requirement for, and a source of self-esteem.

When the path of intellectual development began to discard, for good reason, the old ethical systems made of faith-based, mystical religions, there should have been a new code of ethics created to replace the old - one born of reason and with an understanding of human nature, and of psychology. Instead that vacuum, to me, seems to have encouraged an updated version of the old religion to step in and fill a real need.


Post 2

Saturday, July 23, 2011 - 8:02pmSanction this postReply
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Professor Machan wrote, "I do not share the view that politicians are necessarily corrupt. Sure, a welfare state attracts the kind of politicians who see little wrong with taking from some people to make available for others, including themselves, when they feel it is important enough."

I agree with what is stated, but feel a little uncomfortable letting it go without addressing it. We will never be able to look into the minds of the different politicians and thereby determine why each individual does what he does, but it is important to be able to understand the categories of politicians that exist.

A welfare state necessarily violates individual rights and isn't the best practical way to help those that need help - that we know. And based upon that we oppose any such policy. But we don't know why a given politician advocates a particular welfare state policy. A welfare state policy, unless extreme, isn't an example of socialism. It isn't a form of centralized planning of the economy. For example, if the state uses a small portion of taxes to give to a small portion of the population to spend on their rent, it is welfare, but not socialism. On the other hand, if the state owns the housing project, it is socialism. In the later example, they are engaged in public control of non-public goods.

Those politicians who push for increasing control are a greater danger. And they will tend to be the least honest. They will be more likely to want to increase welfare as a means of increasing government control and centralized exercise of that control. The people to be helped with the welfare will be the smoke-screen, the excuse, and not so much the honest reason for the policy. The true progressive will eventually want to take the Section 8 Housing assistence and expand it to where they have more control - like the current proposals to require Fannie and Freddie to set up agencies to rent out the 300,000 foreclosed houses they own - they will use altruistic, welfare principles to justify the form in which they intrude into the rental markets.

Here are the general categories I find useful:
  • There are otherwise good politicians but that believe we need to have a minimal social safety net - to just help those who can't help themselves and otherwise be a free market. They are least dangerous of those that threaten us.
  • And there are the corrupt politicians, and from what I understand they exist in great numbers, who are in it for dishonest money - they will change principles as easily as a change of clothing.
  • I don't believe the corrupt politicians are anywhere as great a danger as the welfare state ideologue. That person is a true believer who is tightly fastened to bad principles which put altruistic sacrifice ahead of free enterprise, and will drive a country in the wrong direction given enough support.
  • But the politican that is the greatest danger is the one who never takes his eye of the target of total government control and uses deception, appeals to altruism, the big lie, mistated facts, bad economic principles, twisted statistics, scare tactics, and crisis to increase centralized government control over individuals and businesses - the true progressive.


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Post 3

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 6:25amSanction this postReply
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Ethics is different for politicians because of what politics is. And because of what politics is, even the definition of politics is recursively political, and this influences its ethics.

One definition: the art of government of others.

Another definition: the art of ruling others.

A meta-definition: the art of getting what you want from others.

In all of these definitions, why you want it is immaterial to the fact of you wanting it, as long as you can get it and that pushes ethics in politics to the back burner.

Politics has a subset: mega-politics, the art that includes brute force. (War, crime, force based conflict resolution.) Little ethics involved in mega-politics, just winning, unless academics ponder such acts from afar. But, not the principals in the conflict; so it is with other than mega-politics.

Just because the balance of politics excludes force does not make it ethical; the balance of politics includes lies, deceit, cheating. Those are all schemes for getting what we want from others, and they permeate our politics.

Commerce is a subset of politics; a scheme of getting what we want from others by voluntarily trading value-for-value with them in what is most often a win-win exchange. But even commerce is infected with unethical behavior such as the foisting of false value for real value, when simple 'win-win' is not enough of what some want.

There are inter-personal politics, which is how we get what we want from those around us, especially our loved ones. Sometimes what we want is as simple as the TV remote, and we get what we want by simply asking them. Often what we want is specific changes in their behavior, and those interpersonal conflicts require much greater arm wrestling politics short of placing a gun to their head. But, sometimes that includes telling lies, as well.

Public politics by definition permeates our public machinery of government, the state. Non-personal politics. Getting what we want from strangers over the horizon that we will never have to face.

It's hard to lie to your spouse, and yet, it is often done; imagine how easy it is to lie to someone far over the horizon that you will never face.

Rather than imagine a new, perfect species where this is not the case, better I think to seek forms of government that recognize this unavoidable boundary condition, this fact.

One consequence of recognizing that fact is, I think, government with nearer horizons. Governments, not government. We've been heading in the opposite direction ever since the civil war.

Another consequence is, a fettered government that simply does less. We need to have double yellow lines painted down the middle of the road, and we need to pay for the paint, and we need to have folks paint the lines, but it has little impact when those folks lie about what they are doing; we can see the lines. But when we tolerate a government that lurches out into every corner of our lives and economies, that sells leverage via its guns to shortcut seeking imperfect humans, then ethics in politicians is of crucial importance, and we are requiring that undiscovered species to make it work and not be the latest totalitarian FAIL. What starts out as an enforcer against fringe unethical behavior in our societies, plural, soon becomes the single greatest element against which we require protection from, as it inexorably attempts to shepherd our societies into "S"ociety, by forced association.

Unavoidable unethical behavior running loose in that totalitarian 'it' is the greatest self-made, self-tolerated threat to our freedom imaginable.

We need to accept the boundary condition that unethical behavior is endemic, and so, unleash/tolerate only smaller entities with smaller too corruptible levers running loose in the nation.

We can move in that direction by restoring federalism.

Not that we will.





Post 4

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 9:13amSanction this postReply
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A "devil's advocate" reply to Fred:

I talked to a liberal once who had worked at WalMart. This liberal thought highly of Sam Walton and said that WalMart was a moral company until it got big. Then it became evil.

1) Is this liberal right?
2) Is the situation the same with government (Big = Evil)?

Ed

p.s. I did like your response and even sanctioned it.

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/24, 9:19am)


Post 5

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 12:37pmSanction this postReply
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Fred,

I don't agree with your last statement where you say we never will get a small federal government via Federalism. For me the question is "when."

Will it be this time around? When I'm feeling optimistic, I put the odds at about 70% that we will see it getting started by 2013 - 2014 and progressing some each year. On my pessimistic days, I put the odds at about 10% or less.

But even if it doesn't happen this time, even if the economy collapses and a strongman takes us into totalitarianism, I am optimistic that the human race will get this right eventually. If you stand back and look at all of human history, and from that perspective, how close we have come in the period of 1776 to now, compared to all the forms of tyranny that have and could exist, it is a picture of zeroing in on the right form of government - just like it was almost inevitable that we would learn physics, or biology. It is just that the soft sciences take longer to get right, and that history moves so slow compared to the individual's lifespan.

The ancient Greeks split ethics from science and the modern philosophers continue to rationalize that split. This left ethics in the hands of religion. The secular world limps along without a solid theoretical ethical base, without a universal, shared experiential bond in this important area of human life. But then Rand created a system that integrated a rational ethics, explicitly, and showed the connection between politics and ethics - making Capitalism the moral choice. That's a bell that can't be unrung. It is just a question of time.

Post 6

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 12:49pmSanction this postReply
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Curious about your statement that the ancient Greeks split ethics from science.  Who in particular?  What form did this take?  What would these fields look like if the split hadn't happened?  The Old Testament would seem to be one of many evidences that ethics was already in the hands of religion.

Post 7

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 2:30pmSanction this postReply
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Peter,

Steve may have his own answer, but I want to address this:
The Old Testament would seem to be one of many evidences that ethics was already in the hands of religion.
Okay, but 1 Corinthians 1:22** alludes that Greeks were still working on an ethics free of religion.

The Greek guy who started this "fall of Greece" (into a dichotomy of matter and spirit) was Plato. In retrospect, both Augustine and Plato can be viewed as a philosophical anti-dote to Pyrrho -- just like Kant can be viewed (and at least he viewed himself) as a philosophical anti-dote to Hume. In both cases, reason had to be limited, in order to make room for faith. I'd say that both Plato and Augustine are of primary blame (Augustine may have been the proximate cause of the Dark Ages).

And I'd add that Kant is of proximate blame for our current cultural and intellectual ineptitude and moral decay.

Ed

**Amplified Bible; 1 Corinthians 1:22:

For while Jews [demandingly] ask for signs and miracles and Greeks pursue philosophy and wisdom,
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Corinthians%201&version=AMP

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/24, 8:13pm)


Post 8

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 3:47pmSanction this postReply
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Ed:

From my point of view, Walmart can get as big as it wants, as long as it acts under a constrained set of laws. Not for me to tell Walmart, however, and maybe they have found a way to deal with it successfully, but Walmart's size is more of a potential threat to Walmart than it is to anyone else.

I am way more concerned with giant monopolists with guns than I am giant monopolists.

For whatever reasons, long before you and I were born, this nation passed laws aimed at curbing monopolies(which is not the same thing as curbing 'large.') Given that, I have always found it contradictory that this nation has not also passed laws curbing monopolists with guns(ie, government itself.)

The trends in self governance in this nation are towards forever larger spheres of single ppoint of failure control, and that is what I find contradictory in this nations supposed fealty to 'mixed economies,' distributed, non-concentrated power.

But, nobody puts a gun to anybody's head and tells them they have to either sell to or buy from Walmarts. As long as Walmarts is an example of free association, I have no beef whatso0ever with Walmart.



Post 9

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 3:56pmSanction this postReply
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STeve:

I guess I meant more that it doesn't look like we will rationally get there, by deliberate steps, via our politics.

I don't know, but it looks more like the way we get there is for the wheels to just fall off the present out of all control mess. That is, under the sheer weight of the current ... incompetence.



Post 10

Sunday, July 24, 2011 - 6:54pmSanction this postReply
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Answering Peter takes us off thread a ways... but here goes:


Ethics, not as a study, but as a set of practices, extended back far before the old testament and was an integral part of religion. But when you are talking about tens of thousands of years BC, then religion and 'science' are one. People explained natural phenomena via the positing of gods and the ethics at that time are not ethics as we see them now, but rather doing their duty to keep the system running. You do rituals and in doing so you keep the various gods happy and this was just how nature was understood.

During this long period 'ethics' and 'science' were one and the same - natural law describing causality in the natural world.

Until 'science' evolved away from the mythical assertions of polytheistic explanations of natural phenomena to deriving rational explanations for natural phenomena science and ethics were bound together. After Thales, it was possible to describe different reasons for right and wrong and good and evil since man was no longer 'logically' tied to a set of gods that needed sacrifices to keep the rivers running, women and cattle pregnant and the sun rising.

Many of the early materialists, and atomists set the stage for ruling out values as rationally derived as things that couldn't be reduced to atoms. Thales of Miletus was father to an understanding of the world not based upon mythology. Anaxagoras opened the door for atomic theory further separating ethics and the science of the material world.

Many of the greek philosophers moved away from a spiritual morality in support for believing only in science and that which can be supported by logic (and that is all good, but it set the stage for the use of 'logical' theories, like the synthetic-analytic dicotomy to finish the shift of philosophers to the side of Pyrrho - to non-cognitivism, or moral nihilism/scepticism, or ethical relativism.)

Once the stage was set in this fashion there are many kinds of splits that could be postulated - like the example Ed gave: Plato's division of the universe into matter and spirit.

Pyrrho taught that good or bad cannot be rationally determined (but then he also believe that we cannot know the truth in any area). Xenophanes of Colophon argued that there is a truth of reality but that humans cannot know it.

Protagoras may be the father of moral relativism and ethical subjectivism.

The complete casting out of ethics from the realm of the rational takes one of these forms:
Non-Cognitivsm: Moral statements do not express genuine propositions and are just emotive, demands rather than statements of fact, or fiction.
Moral Nihilism or Scepticism: There are no such things as objective values - closely related to Non-Cognitivism.
Ethical Relativism: There are no objective moral values and everything is subjective to the individual (preferences or feelings), or cultural beliefs.

They all came into being in ancient Greece (along with Logic and Science).


Post 11

Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 6:54amSanction this postReply
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Tibor:

"One reason for this is that much of theology and even some social science claims that people are innately selfish,"


But social science *is* theology. Not 'theology and even some social science.'

Social Scientology: "S"ociety=God, the state is its proper church = theology.

(I should state this even stronger: social science is theology, and Social Scientology is the un-named and un-namable religion based on that theology. It is un-namable precisely because it must mask itself as a 'science' in order to pierce the 1st Amendment. It is the vampire religion that dare never speak its name in the light of day...)

I can't read Durkheim's summary in Religious Formes, where this 'still seminal' founding father of social scientology finally coughs up the definition of "S"ociety, and not see his explicit assertion that "S"ociety = the One True God.

"Society is not at all the illogical or a-logical, incoherent and fantastic being which has too often been considered. Quite on the contrary, the collective consciousness is the highest form of psychic life, since it is the consciousness of consciousness. Being placed outside of and above individual and local contingencies, it sees things only in their permanent and essential aspects, which it crystallizes into communicable ideas. At the same time that it sees from above, it sees farther; at every moment of time it embraces all known reality; that is why it alone can furnish the minds with the moulds which are applicable to the totality of things and which make it possible to think of them."

Emile Durkheim, The Elementary Forms of Religious Life (New York, The Free Press, 1954), p. 444. (Summary)

That summary-- in the context of the rest of Religious Formes, where he identifies primitive man's mistaken attribution to 'God' that which should have correctly been(according to him and his fellow religious nuts) attributed to 'the Tribe/"S"ociety', is the religious foundation of the totalitarian/theocratic freedom eating movement sweeping much of the globe for over a hundred years. What was once an external threat to freedom in America has long ago transition to an internal threat, exactly via the subterfuge that this religious belief is a 'science' and not a religion competing for dominance over all other religions. Durkheim's subterfuge was to mask his religion as a 'science' that claimed, as one of its early tasks, to classify all other religions as 'religion,' and therefore, removed from (and beneath) his One True Religion that had 'scientifically' identified primitive man's once mistake.


No worry, he and his (Marx, Weber, etc.) were going to set primitive man right and on the true path, as illuminated by Social Scientology.

But, please... read Durkheim's summary above again. If you don't see his eyes rolled into the back of his head in that summary, then ... look again.


It is the basis for Social Scientology; it is the basis for all social science.

It was even apparent in Obama's campaign speech last night to the nation.

Via free association, we form societies, not "S"ociety. "S"ociety is a term of totalitarian religious art.

Society, from the Latin, socius: ally, known companion.

We choose our socius; we freely form societies. "S"ociety, however, is impressed upon all of us by an out of control state once formed to protect the concept of individual liberty, freedom -- freedom from the imposition of "S"ociety being at the top of the list.

The religious attack on the self(as in Obama's religious rant last night)is the same as an attack on individual liberty and freedom.

Social science is theology.


(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 7/26, 11:36am)


Post 12

Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 7:19amSanction this postReply
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The article says:
Smith got it right: moral teaching for the last several centuries has been mostly of the self-sacrificial variety: those who care to live well aren't morally worthy, those who care to make others live well are, period.

Missing word(s) before "period"?


Post 13

Tuesday, July 26, 2011 - 11:23amSanction this postReply
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Merlin:

I think what is implied is shown below:

Smith got it right: moral teaching for the last several centuries has been mostly of the self-sacrificial variety: those who care to live well aren't morally worthy, those who care to make others live well are[morally worthy], period.

regards,
Fred

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