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Post 0

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 3:53amSanction this postReply
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Sanction: 6, No Sanction: 0
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Post 1

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 7:12amSanction this postReply
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What keeps getting lost is the fact that, in the phone transcripts, Mr. Zimmerman was *asked* 'what is the other man wearing?' and then Mr. Zimmerman responded with a description, including the objective fact that he was wearing a hoodie.


This is not how the event was initially painted; it was described as Mr. Zimmerman being suspicious -because- Mr. Martin was wearing a hoodie; is there any evidence of that to be seen?

The fact that Mr. Zimmerman noticed and reported objective reality when he was asked is not a sign of any prejudice towards folks wearing hoodies.

Ditto his description of Mr. Martin's race, in response to being *asked*.



Post 2

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 8:39amSanction this postReply
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That won't stop the intrisicists from making this a hate crime, Fred. This case is a true study of the intrinsic mindset.

Post 3

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 9:46amSanction this postReply
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What isn't clear to me from the facts floating around, if this was an application of 'Stand Your Ground', then ... which of them was standing their ground?

It's not at all clear, and so, it is reasonable that there is an investigation. There is no reason to second guess the special prosecutor, and so, it must be reasonable that there is a trial to examine this one, because it -isn't- clear which one of them was 'standing his ground' on a public sidewalk that they both had every right to be on...

For example...did Zimmerman show his weapon before or after he was struck with other than a question, "Why are you following me?"

That, to me, would be key. If before, then it was Martin who was 'standing his ground...' If after, then it was Zimmerman.

Do we know, from the facts floating around? Or, do we just don't know, and nobody but Zimmerman knows at this point?

There is another recent case in Montgomery County, PA -- ironically, another Hispanic man -- and it was -clearly- a case of self defense. Two men -- a father and son -- were beating on him with baseball bats, he fled to his vehicle to retrieve his firearm, and even then, he did everything he could -not- to shoot-- he warned, he was beat on, he struck back with the firearm but dud not discharge it, he was beat on, and -then- he fired his weapon. It was investigated and ruled self defense.

This case in FLA seems ... nothing like that, and an investigation and so on for sure seems warranted. So, we should just let the process work, it's as good as it gets, and live with the result.

If he is convicted, there will be no riots. If he is acquitted, there will be riots. I think that is an easy prediction.



Post 4

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 10:38amSanction this postReply
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Fred, I remember the initial media stories said that the police stated that witnesses the police interviewed had made statements that agreed with Zimmerman's story of self defense. Then there is one witness who started a little controversey that the police were asking loaded questions and did not record what she meant.

Post 5

Thursday, April 12, 2012 - 3:16pmSanction this postReply
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Dean:

Could be. It really seemed to spin out of control quickly, turned into a real mob frenzy.

Assume there is evidence consistent with Zimmerman getting injured; injuries to the back of his head and his nose, as stated in the police report.

1] Barring evidence to the contrary, those injuries were sustained because Martin struck Zimmerman.

2] Those are unlikely to have occurred -after- Zimmerman shot Martin, but before, and that pretty much establishes which came first.

3] But it still matters if Martin was responding to Zimmerman threatening him with a weapon before Martin struck him. If the only thing said up to that point was words on the street-- Martin asking Zimmerman 'Why are you following me?' --then that possibly unknown fact is crucial.

At least in my mind.

But...that fact so far seems unknown. To me, if there is no evidence that Zimmerman threatened by exposing his weapon first, then I don't see how Zimmerman gets convicted or even charged. They both had a right to be on a public walkway. They both have a right to speak. The threshold to -introduce- violence on another by either of them can't be 'uncomfortable with the rightful presence of another in a public place.'


So, does the special prosecutor have evidence other than that which has been made public, or did she bring charges and a trial to try and defuse a volatile mob lynching? I hope the former and not the latter, or else she is just training the mob with positive feedback for lousy mob behavior.

He's been arrested and there will likely be a trial; if he is acquitted by the process, will there be riots? I would not be surprised. If he is convicted by the process, will there be riots? I would be surprised.

regards,
Fred




Post 6

Saturday, April 14, 2012 - 4:21pmSanction this postReply
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I remember the hoodies in the UK riots... I remember them walking out of stores with giant flat screens and other gadgets. They even dropped the stuff in the excitement, I wonder if it even worked when they got it home.

Teresa,

Is Post 0 a photo of a freedom fighter or a terrorist? Yes, he killed children, and his action did not achieve what he wanted (he said he would have chosen sniping if he could go back) but his purpose was different than the UK rioters.

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