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Wednesday, May 28, 2014 - 12:51amSanction this postReply
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Why must those with exceptional talent, skill, luck, etc. be punished for possessing these?

because they are the only ones who have anything worth plundering?

 

Progressive taxation has become so normal here in Europe that about a year ago German politicians felt brave enough to publicly demanded a special one-time 'donation' (mandatory of course) by anyone worth more that a quarter million € in cash or valuables to finance EU debts. Even though the measure was not implemented that was not due to public dissent in Germany (those 25% in favor didn't even understand the contradiction of a 'mandatory donation'), but simple stupidity of the politicians: they couldn't find a law (or enact one quickly enough) to make their new 'donation' legal.

 

I'm sure that's not the last we heard of progressive taxes, donations, and what-not ... as long as those who have are a minority, the majority of have-nots will always vote in favor of redistribution. That's democracy - right?

Someone put it quite accuratety in this anecdote: "two wolves and a sheep meet for dinner and decide to have a vote on what's on the menu ... one guess who ends up on the table" ... of course my spiteful answer would be bon appetit :D

 

the really perverse part following that anecdote to todays conclusion is the herd of sheeple voting to eat their watchdog ...

 

(Edited by Vera S. Doerr on 5/28, 12:54am)



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Friday, May 30, 2014 - 9:12amSanction this postReply
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Pure Animal Farm, where "donation" means "grabbed from" and "asked" means "told."

 

They must bend the language like this; it is an existential(for them)necessity, because to use words honestly would make them confront who they really are, while who they are, they are convinced, are the last true saviours of Mankind.

 

And so, Obama with his mealy "What is wrong with asking?" when what he and his are actually advocating is "What is wrong with telling at the point of a gun?", and Europes' "donation."

 

regards,

Fred



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Friday, May 30, 2014 - 9:16amSanction this postReply
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Vera:

 

That's democracy - right?

 

That wasn't Athenian Democracy.    Only Athenian Citizens could vote; membership in Athenian Citizenry was through the Ethebes(military training), and one could lose ones citizenship by being an 'idiot.'   Idiocy included...debt to the state.

 

Today, Athenian Democracy is held up as something it was not; pure Democracy of The People.

 

regards,

Fred



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Friday, May 30, 2014 - 9:37amSanction this postReply
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Thanx Fred,

I read your explanations on Athenian Democracy on the other thread - it sounded the slightest bit 'elititst' instead of democratic - which would probably be it's saving virtue ;)

However as long as demos means people and people means sheeple the Athenian's variety won't change much - the basics have to be changed - otherwise your very own Mr O will always be able to call himself the leader of the free world ;)

Gotta get my laughs somewhere :D



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Friday, May 30, 2014 - 9:57amSanction this postReply
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Fred,

They must bend the language like this; it is an existential(for them)necessity, because to use words honestly would make them confront who they really are, while who they are, they are convinced, are the last true saviours of Mankind.

So true! Also, they carry around in their heads the unstated, subconscious belief that consciousness has primacy over existence - that saying it is a 'donation,' MAKES it a donation... sort-of... blank out. (Any objections that start to arise in their minds are immediately subjected to 'Blank Out.')

 

This 'words over reality' is melded in with the childlike insistence that if they really, really want it, then it has to happen - efficacy by magic.  The hallmark of adults whose childhood tantrums were regularly appeased.

 

That works well as the psychology of those who want to consume and control but not produce.

 

And all of that mental mush is buffered with a sense that words and concepts don't matter that much anyway when compared to what they feel, to their emotional needs. Emotions, for them, are more important than logic, and their emotions are more important than emotions of others.

 

It all works together as the motivations behind the Progressive's political system - perfectly suiting someone with narcissistic personality features and control issues. An interlocking set of defenses with an implied premise that if only they can have enough control, especially over the producers and stop all of this change, then their background anxiety will go away.

 

Many of the young who suffer this anxiety and have some of these defense mechanism head to the universities where they learn about these intellectual trojan horses, these general purpose shells they can wear: Socialism, Progressivism, Environmentalism, or some other variant of altruism and/or collectivism. Then they can march off campus feeling so much stronger and protected hiding inside this intellectual shell.  From in there they can yell at others, get righteous, feel like their vulnerable self is safely hidden, and have goals that their subconscious thinks will give them relief from their anxieties. 

 

I am, of course, generalizing and exaggerating, because many young people are just lending their natural, healthy enthusiasm and energy to what they are being taught are just causes.  They join the parade and end up voting against liberty without knowing it.  But the true believers who connect on a deeper emotional level... they are the ones that end up becoming the next generation's associate professors and moving the Overton Window farther to the left.



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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 - 7:06amSanction this postReply
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Vera:

 

Well, Athenian Democracy was certainly sexist; only males could speak at Assembly, and the path to citizenship(and voting rights) was through military training.

 

So we improve upon it, and eliminate the sexist aspect.   But(in our minds, this is all moot and going nowhere) keep the same path to citizenship, through military training at 18.   Think of Isreal.   Men and women.

 

And also, keep the same path to losing Citizenship (being assessed to be an idiot, which includes 'debt to the state.')

 

Where is the elitism in requiring folks not to be idiots in order to vote?

 

Not the same as requiring Mensa membership.   Where is the elitism?

 

I also liked their policy of strictly enforcing the non-egalitarianism of ideas.    Men and women listening at Assembly would shout/laugh down fools who stood up and spoke nonsense.   It was necessary to be prepared and informed and actually have something to say in order to stand up and speak at Assembly.   It was the obligation of all (men and women and non Citizens) to listen at Assembly, to enforce the strength of their Democracy, which included weeding out the idiots.

 

Western Modern Democracies(WMDs)are nothing like Athenian Democracy;   WMDs are today idiots able to count heads and pander to other idiots.  Period.   The Jungle Tribe reclaiming its own.    Modernity stood still too long, here come the vines, the Tribe/Jungle clawing back freedom.

 

WMDs have become ... WMDs. 

 

regards,

Fred



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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - 1:30amSanction this postReply
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Fred - I agreed with you - the elitism as 'saving grace' being the 'no idiots allowed' rule ;) otherwise it would have been the rule of the masses again ...

love the WMDs :D



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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 - 10:01amSanction this postReply
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Vera:

 

A growing tend:  Weapons of Masses' Democracy.   Pure Democracy.    The ethics of any gang rape, where a vote is held and the majority has its way.    Our Democrats are pushing that idea like it is a Holy thing, and our GOP is not doing much other than wish it was the majority so it could take its crack at unlimited mob rule.   Two mobs, out of control, in a steel cage death match struggle for domination over the Tribe.   State plumbers, totally out of control.  

 

Hope these days is wishing for a meteor to hit DC so the nation could hit the reset button.   We'd boo hoo for a few weeks, there would be endless coverage on CNN, and then slowly, the nation would not be able to get the smile off its face 24/7.  That's where we are.

 

regards,

Fred



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