|Posted this on the wrong thread...........|
You present an argument that I disagree with profoundly. The world probably would be safer if we locked people up indefinitely and tortured them to obtain confessions based on suspicion, . That is not however a country that can claim to be champions of freedom, and a police state isn't something that deserves to be defended (I'm not advocating terrorists attacking the US BTW).
Everytime Rumsfield is questioned on the detention centre he tells us that they are; the worst of the worst, people who will kill US citizens if released etc. But the facts don't support that assertion. Very few charges have been brought against the 450+ detainees, according to this lady it is 10 in total http://www.amnestyusa.org/askamnesty/live/display.php?topic=50 .
Everytime an infringement of human rights are legislated, perpetrated and found (torture, indefinite detainment, Patriot Act, various acts in the UK, ID cards in UK), the same 'to protect us from terrorists' argument is repeated and repeated. Here's maybe a controversial statement; I don't want to be that safe. If my safety is depended on circumstances such as the detention centre at Guantanamo Bay, and the infringement of freedom by various acts passed in the UK (I'm a resident)... I don't want it.
I don't want my safety to depend on this http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510072006 , http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/19913leg20050712.html
If you do have concerns about the dentention centre please...
email President Bush; firstname.lastname@example.org
email Tony Blair; http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/page821.asp
If in U.S. email senators; http://www.senate.gov/general/contac...nators_cfm.cfm
If in U.K. email your MP; http://www.locata.co.uk/commons/
Kurt Replied with this.........
Look Skinner - according to the agreed upon rules of war, if we capture the enemy during the course of the war, we can detain them until said war is over. That is not a violation of their rights and we don't have to charge them. We didn't release the Germans we captured until the war was over, and that took years. So why then is it a problem when these folks were captured during the course of a war? There are, as I said, some areas that could use some clarification, but to treat them as if they were someone the police caught is an absurdity. It is not the same, and if Europe continues to hide its head in the sand, you will be whinging about rights until the moment your own muslims come and cut your heads off.
This is the kind of attitude that compelled me to write on this forum (and thank you for the opportunity), and the argument presented by most right-wing press in the UK for the detention centre. Maybe the fact they won't be targeted by the Terrorism Laws, and detained and taken to the naval base, has something to do with it. Being white, not in the middle east, non-muslim and pro-current foreign policy, you probably won't find yourself arrested for protesting, or indefinitely detained and tortured.
The fact is, many of the detainee's were not caught in battle they were in areas caught in conflict areas, or detained in the middle east by various regions police/armies, and given to US forces, these are facts. Those who have been released without charge, and were tortured, said they were their in the middle east for humanitarian and spiritual reasons. The facts also are that one of the greatest violations human rights are being undertaken indefinite detainment without charge, homicide, and torture, are being carried out in your name, to protect your safety. Human rights are not commodities to be traded away for your personal safety. Again it is not a price I wish to pay.
The last sentence I perceived to be filled with some astounding hatred and prejudice, towards europe and muslims. The facts are millions of muslims publicly condemn the acts of terrorism in the UK, and they don't go around chopping people's heads off (I assure you). I've perceived an almost sub-human regard for the muslim community by some people in the right and some Objectivists. They are not all head-chopping terrorists, waiting for an opportunity to kill you in your sleep, I assure you.