[an error occurred while processing this directive]
About
Content
Store
Forum

Rebirth of Reason
War
People
Archives
Objectivism

Post to this threadMark all messages in this thread as readMark all messages in this thread as unread


Post 0

Tuesday, July 30 - 9:30pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
This is a redo of my last post. I had forgotten to add a title to the old post, and hence this one.
I have been reading about Rand's philosophy since my teens. I have also been on disability for most of adult life. I am now on medication that enables me to be able to function independently if I choose to. (I am currently diagnosed with "schizo-affective disorder", a disorder that causes psychotic symptoms such as hallucinations, paranoia, and delusions.)
Since I have recovered my ability to function as an independent individual, I have asked myself whether it is in my self-interest to go back to working full-time. I know that Objectivism would countenance my doing so, but I wonder whether I would be able to make more money by work alone than I get in terms of disability payments, food stamps, and housing assistance. I am fully aware that Objectivism would label me as evil for choosing not to work, but I feel, especially in hard economic times like this in the U.S, that I honestly kind of have it made. I have no fear of unemployment, my money is as gaurunteed as it gets, and I am free either to work or not to work...it is entirely up to me.
My question is "Why might Objectivists say that my choice not to work, should I make that choice, represents anything other than selfishness?" By the way, I have two job interviews tomorrow, and intent to at least work part time. However, I can't see in my case why self-interest would necessarily involve working. Can anybody help me out on this one?



Post 1

Wednesday, July 31 - 8:14pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Christopher,

fwiw, I agree with Steve's answer on that first thread.

Ed




Post 2

Thursday, August 1 - 3:12amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Ditto for Ed and Steve and in addition, read The Ten Natural Laws of Successful Time and Life Management by Hyrum W. Smith to see how Nathaniel Branden's Psychology of Self-Esteem plays in explicitly identified and written values made concrete through explicitly identified and executed daily tasks.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 8/01, 3:13am)




Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 18, No Sanction: 0
Post 3

Thursday, August 1 - 12:15pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Christopher:

I, too, can't think of a better response than Steve's on the other thread; he says it clearly.

If that isn't enough reason for you, it isn't enough reason for you. Plenty of folks function on a purely reptilian basis("Can I eat it? Can it eat me?") and live their entire one and only life with no more calculus present than that.

Mankind can certainly function as if reptilian; many men do. Some men don't. Some of them developed the medication that has given you back your life.

If you can live with that, you can live with that; no other occupant of skin outside of yours is ever going to effectively make that choice for you. (Circumstances and tribal politics might expand or limit those choices, but within the realm of what is possible, your choices are your own responsibility.)

That is either perceivable as a license to do as you will, or it is the realization of a responsibility to your one and only life that you only get one chance to meet.

regards,
Fred


(Edited by Fred Bartlett on 8/01, 12:22pm)




Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Sanction: 16, No Sanction: 0
Post 4

Friday, August 2 - 8:32pmSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Guys,
Thanks so much for your feedback. I see now that I was basing my standard of health on something far too minimal. I wanted to add something that happened to me tonight on a bus ride home. I hope that I can elucidate my thoughts in a way that's clear and makes sense to others.
Tonight I was riding home on public transportation,and there was a lot of noise and chaos on the bus. Several people on there were very noisy and apparently had no respect whatsoever for the others among us who were sitting politely, trying to tend to our thoughts or talk at a respectful pitch to someone sitting next to us. The one's showing no respect on the bus also were clearly (judging from their conversations) not the type who probably take their lives very seriously at all.
I got to thinking of how many people on that bus are probably on welfare, or receive any of various kinds of government assistance to aid them in living parasitical lives. (I know that there were probably a good number of them because of the types of conversations I've had with others and have heard being had on various occasions in the past when riding the bus.) I started to see really clearly what Ayn Rand meant about the unvirtuous necessarily being dependent upon the exploitation of the virtuous if they are to attain their ends. I also became clearly aware that there is value in justice precisely because of this potentially dangerous impact the unvirtuous can have. If we all gave to each person as each deserved (when possible), based on persons' moral status as independent achievers (or the opposite), then we would help curtail the possibility of potentially dangerous forces (on whatever scale they might), from becoming inimical to our own lives. And, since evil necessarily spreads throughout a culture to the extent that it is not held in check and/or punished, it's about treating EVERYONE as they deserve, and not just the people we have direct dealings with.
After having seen all this very clearly tonight (I regret the fact of having missed the point when I read Atlas Shrugged 10 years ago for some reason), I've decided to be just by trying to be on the side of the good, to be an Objectivist, and to try to get a full-time job. I don't want to be on the side of destruction, and, potentially, chaos. And ANY danger is danger, so I don't see any room for accomodating the advancement of destruction whatsoever, or of being on any side save for that of people who (in the valid sense appropriate here), value themselves and others. I don't want to be on the side that by it's very nature heads towards an abyss. :)
I don't mean to suggest that the people on the bus who were behaving wildly were evil incarnate, by the way. It's just that their manner of acting got me to thinking about important themes from Ayn Rand's thought that I had not considered with as much clarity before. Because I have been reading Rand's writings for many years, I was primed upon witnessing what I did on the bus to begin thinking of themes such as the irrational being incapable of true achievement, the necessary dependence of the irrational upon the good, etc... It's related, I guess, to the fact that philosophy allows you a way to see concrete particulars from a wide, conceptual framework. I finally had a way of viewing the irrational within the broadest possible context. Next time I read Atlas Shrugged, I'm going to pay more attention;) I could have saved myself a lot of time and effort had I read it right the first time.



Post 5

Saturday, August 3 - 7:15amSanction this postReply
Bookmark
Link
Edit
Christopher:

There are lots of pleasures in life; one of them, for sure, is meeting your obligations to yourself.

regards,
Fred





Post to this thread
[an error occurred while processing this directive]


User ID Password or create a free account.