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Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 4:15pmSanction this postReply
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Objectivists claim to see things as they ARE, rather than as society demands them to be seen. And in today's society, we are all relentlessly commanded to accept one overriding proclamation: that are races are "equal".

But are they?

And if they're not, what impact does this have on the worldview of Objectivists?

Ward Kendall, author of "Hold Back This Day", a sci-fi novel about the last whites on Earth and their heroic struggle for survival.

Post 1

Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 6:09pmSanction this postReply
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The statement"races are equal" Define equal as to what? The statement by itself is puzzleing.

Post 2

Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 6:20pmSanction this postReply
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No one can be said to be equal to the other -- we are all different, have different capacities for various things.

The only thing Objectivists claim is that all races should be equal UNDER THE LAW. That each individual, no matter their relative merits or strengths or IQ be subject equally to whatever laws exist. That there are no exclusions to who may pay a penalty for some crime -- station in life, money, power, IQ, looks, etc., are irrelevant when it comes to laws. All are equally subject to laws ...

This isn't true these days, though we had the beginnings of the idea with our Constitution before it was destroyed by various thugs.

Only equal under law ... it simply would not matter what any individual of any race was or was not capable of.

Hope this helps!

Joy :)

Post 3

Wednesday, August 14, 2002 - 8:41pmSanction this postReply
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Whenever races are equal in capacities or not is a question for geneticists, NOT philosophers.

As Joy said, everyone is equal under the law. Beyond that, we must remain silent.

Post 4

Sunday, August 18, 2002 - 5:53pmSanction this postReply
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Equality? Spare me. The teenagers wearing muscle shirts in the parking lot outside my apartment playing rap at a volume suffiecient to tax their speakers might be my equals in the eyes of the law, but in my eyes they're scum; I think I have every right to hold such ignorant children in contempt.

Same with the people I used to see when working in a supermarket who lived off government loot while looking down on people who worked. The law can and should consider them my equals, but to me they are filth to be scraped off a pair of boots.

Post 5

Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:23pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Matthew,

I'm not sure what muscle shirts, loud rap and living off the government have to do with race.

That's rhetorical, of course. If you like to collectivize people, statistics might show a tendency for individuals of certain races to choose to wear muscle shirts or other "scum"-like qualities, but they're exactly that; choices. Your skin color does not determine anything and is therefore not philosophically significant.

Great site, by the way!

Chip

Post 6

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:36amSanction this postReply
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I was speaking of equality, not race. I don't think in terms of race: to divide a species into breeds based on coloring is something we do with dogs and cats; to divide ourselves into breeds should be beneath us.

Of course, there's a reason I mark "Other" and write down "hobbit" on any form that asks for my "race" -- it's fun to throw monkeywrenches into an evil system.

Post 7

Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 6:37amSanction this postReply
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Oh, and Chip: thanks; I'm glad you liked my site. I really have to stop slacking and put up more content...

Post 8

Wednesday, May 21, 2003 - 4:44amSanction this postReply
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I am truly surprised that any of you responded to the initial sender's query with anything but derision. You all, ~most definitely~, have a right to do so. But the man was a racist. Apparently he wrote a book about the "heroic" struggle for survival of the last whites on earth. Enough said.

But I still love this site!

J

Post 9

Saturday, May 24, 2003 - 12:16pmSanction this postReply
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Racism is a disease of the mind. The history of racism is one of lies, inaccuracies, misconceptions, and errors of judgment. Yes Objectivists believe in seeing things as they really are and racism is a REAL evil. The effects of racism in a person's thinking are low self-esteem, blind aggression, unkindness, and the list goes on and on. I have never read a writer who more capably summed it up than Ayn Rand when she said that racism is a "quest for an automatic self-esteem (or pseudo-self-esteem)". There is nothing "heroic" about a "race" struggling for survival. Only individuals can be heroes, never a race!

Post 10

Saturday, November 15, 2003 - 11:02pmSanction this postReply
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I have a coworker who is a Mexican immegrant to the US. He has since arriving here learned English, obtained a CDL, learned the operation of and mechanical repair for all the machinary at our shop. He has obtained a management position at our company and receives a healthy bi-yearly bonus based upon his team's production. I would hold this forth as evidence that effort and ingenuity know no racial boundries.

Post 11

Tuesday, November 18, 2003 - 5:24pmSanction this postReply
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The error people make is in judging people according to their race, when instead it is their culture that should be judged. People cannot choose their race, they can choose their culture, i.e. their values and beliefs and they should be held accountable for their choice.

Post 12

Sunday, December 7, 2003 - 5:52amSanction this postReply
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Hi, folks:
The main problem, and the reason racism is becoming popular again (well, other than state-sanctioned racism such as "affirmative action"), is that people tend to confuse values with ethnicity, just like Mark VendelBosch said.
Here's a few examples:

The National alliance (and their radio show "american dissident voices). Dr. William L. Pierce used to run this organization, which champions something called "White values". Now, they respect stuff like: technological progress, civilized living, equality under the law (for Europeans), etc. But the mistake they (and all other Racists of all types) make is in confusing these VALUES, with the "race" which created them:

This is where we, as Objectivists, run into problems: it gets assumed (by every Postmodernist nutjob out there) that defense of "Western Civilization" is automatically racist, because it's "eurocentric". In other words, we're viewed as not respecting other cultures, or non-Whites, which is patently untrue. The fact is that European HAPPENED to make certain cultural breakthroughs, and stumble on some pivotal ideas: Reason, rule of law, limited government, etc.
So when we Objectivists come out in defense of these "Western" institutions (as opposed to, say, female genital mutilation, Environmentalism, or what have you), we sometimes get looked at like we're Racists or Ethnocentric, which we manifestly are not.

This is why some of mr. Smolynov's (Is that his name?)ideas really don't gibe with what I know about Objectivism. The fact that he explicitly subtitles his website "a journal for Western Man" should pretty much tip you off). He doesn't seem to actually be an Objectivist. Rather, he seems to be a traditionalist MASQUERADING as an Objectivist.
This is not to imply that I'm trying to drive anybody out of "the Movement" or anything, but we really DO need to be clear on whether we stand for our values because they are TRUE, or because they are cultural.

Post 13

Monday, December 8, 2003 - 12:37pmSanction this postReply
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All collectivist terms should be purged from our vocabulary. Many Objectivists don't seem to understand that.

For instance, after 9-11 even the Objectivist Center was up in arms about "America" this and "WE are at war" rhetoric, and I find that extremely scary and irrational.

Post 14

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 5:46amSanction this postReply
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"Scary and irrational?" What are you reffering to here, Francois? My use of the term "We, as Objectivists?"

Ah, so I see. All groups of any kind are symptomatic of "collectivism". Geez, a Platonist position in the other thread, an ANARCHIST position here. I'm starting to wonder about you, Francois! (grin!)
Just joking.

Post 15

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 5:47amSanction this postReply
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Hmm.....isn't the idea of "Our Vocabulary" itself a "collectivist term?" (grin!)

Post 16

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 7:28amSanction this postReply
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*sigh*

Actually, I did mean "our vocabulary", as in every single Objectivist. I wasn't reifying a generality, and therefore my use is valid.

Post 17

Tuesday, December 9, 2003 - 9:10pmSanction this postReply
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How does refering to 'every single Objectivist" differ from "reifying a generality?" Please clarify.

Post 18

Wednesday, December 10, 2003 - 7:04amSanction this postReply
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Because I really meant every single Objectivist, not just a generality which does not apply to all of them.

If I say "Christians are criminals", that's a generality. Christians tend to be more criminal but not all Christians are criminal.
If I say "Christians should learn to use Reason", that's not a generality. It applies to every single one of them.

Post 19

Tuesday, December 16, 2003 - 11:08pmSanction this postReply
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an old tv theme springs to mind;
'who do you think you are kidding Mr Hitler...'
get a job you love mate and stop wasting energy

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