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Post 0

Tuesday, November 25, 2003 - 4:48pmSanction this postReply
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I was just wondering what are some people's views on mental illness.

I'm curious because some objectivists have the (throughly refuted by empirical evidence) belief that all mental illnesses are caused by an improper philosophy.

Does anybody have any mental illnesses; depression, bipolar disorder, etc.

And if so in what way does Objectivism help you cope with your problems.

- And before anyone critisizes my use of the term illness I'll point out that it clearly expresses the departure from a proper and beneficial mind state. -

I'm also curious about any perceived negative effects of the philosophy or the way it is presented. What I mean is that some objectivists in the past and present (as pointed out by Mr Branden and Mr Perigo) feel extreme depression and guilt over not being John Galt/Dagny Taggart.

Post 1

Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 4:39pmSanction this postReply
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Of course mental illness exists. Just like any other disfunctional organ of the human body it produces signs and symptoms. To not believe in mental illness is to presume that all brains will work faultlessly till the day we die.

A good philosophy will be a help though. It will lead to a more fulfilling life and life syle that is protective. Higher IQ also seems to protect against illness. Higher premorbid performance gives a better prognosis should you become ill.

Post 2

Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 6:38pmSanction this postReply
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"Of course mental illness exists". Not so fast, No. 6 ...

http://www.ftrbooks.net/psych/bios/thomas_szasz.htm

This subject shouldn't be dismissed out of hand so quickly.

Paul

Post 3

Sunday, November 30, 2003 - 7:56pmSanction this postReply
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One of my family members was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder. When I first encountered her erratic behavior, I was forced to reexamine some of the fundamental questions about rights.

My first gut reaction was that it is very difficult to allow a person with a mental illness to be totally free when it is painfully clear that the person is no longer behaving rationally. After all, rights are a corollary of the proper way for *rational* individuals to interact.

Stepping back from my own experience, however, I realized that a government-backed declaration of commitment would be a powerful weapon that could be very easily abused.

The current laws regarding commitment is that the person must be an imminent danger to themselves or to others.

Once again, this begs the question of what a 'danger' is, and, more importantly, who decides what constitutes 'dangerous behavior.'

As for the question of the existence of mental illnesses, there are a large number of mental illnesses (bipolar disorder, clinical depression, etc.) which have been empirically linked to abnormalities in brain chemistry.

I concede that a person's lifestyle may contribute to their illness, but is this not true of all illnesses? If someone catches a cold because they foolishly refused to wear a hat on a cold day, is the cold no longer an illness? What of the man who voluntarily eats until obese, which contributes to a subsequent heart attack?

Post 4

Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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This is a fantastic topic and a complex one. I have bipolar disorder and I am an objectivist and am willing to discuss this anonymously. My bipolar disorder is so well controlled that I almost consider myself completely healthy-- the sole caveat is that I must take medicine. Bipolar disorder is not something to grow out of, so I gather I will have to take medicine forever.
Objectivist often believe that an unhealthy mind is solely the product of unhealthy phiosophic premises. While this is surely often true, it can be murder to someone whose mental ill-health is due to faulty brain chemistry.

Post 5

Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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This is a fantastic topic and a complex one. I have bipolar disorder and I am an objectivist and am willing to discuss this anonymously. My bipolar disorder is so well controlled that I almost consider myself completely healthy-- the sole caveat is that I must take medicine. Bipolar disorder is not something to grow out of, so I gather I will have to take medicine forever.
Objectivist often believe that an unhealthy mind is solely the product of unhealthy philosophic premises. While this is surely often true, it can be murder to someone whose mental ill-health is due to faulty brain chemistry.

Post 6

Saturday, December 6, 2003 - 11:27amSanction this postReply
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How does one delete one's post? Duplicate posts on mental illness were not intended.

Post 7

Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 3:19amSanction this postReply
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In my case I drink a lot, and sometimes, like now for instance, I can hardly think straigh. The screen is wavering in fron t of me and I'm wondering what the hell I am even saying. Has that ever happened to anyone here ?

What do you do about it ? Other than AA . Taht would be to o much.
)^____^)

Post 8

Saturday, January 17, 2004 - 6:39pmSanction this postReply
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Bernard:
AA is a drastic step, but a clearer understanding of Objectivist principles is in order:

1. Why do you drink a lot? Are you doing it for relaxation and pleasure? (I'm not going to be one of these insipid prudes who tells you that you shouldn't drink at all, if such is your choice. However, excessive alcohol consumption can indeed cloud the capacity for rational judgement. (But then again, so can excesses of many other things, so that is not a unilateral indictment against alcohol-consumption, by any means.)

I myself went through a bit of a phase where I drank WAY too much, sometimes. Pretty much came down th the fact that my Dad had been a complete waste of effort, and had (like so many others) used his drinking as an excuse for any and all stupid things he ever did.
Thus, my family tended to be really idiotic: they took the tack that if I even had ONE beer, I was inevitably on the same road to being every bit as fucked up as my dad -- which is utter bullshit.
My response was basically to go 180 on 'em, and drink a lot (when I did go drinking), because "I'm not my dad, goddamnit!"
Now, I occasionally have a few drinks even now, but I have become much more "moderate" with it -- mainly because I am much more comfortable with myself, and my "right to be me". Objectivism has helped me to figure myself out much more, and take responsibility for my own life and conduct, to a degree that most Non-Objectivists probably couldn't do.
As such, I have studied up extensively on the physiological effects of alcohol (and many other health issues as well), and strive for a "fully-integrated" lifestyle (IE, I do not 'abstain' from things out of hand, but nor do I use them out of legitimate context.)

As for mental illness, that's a complex question. Sam Erica has a point that many psychiatrists tend to take the wrong tack, in their treatment methodology, but that by no means indicates that there are NO philosophical implications to some mental problems.
(As an example, I would mention "Jerusalem syndrome" -- the pheonomenon where Christianity causes some believers to snap, and believe themselves to be Jesus Christ.)

Objectivism CAN help a person such as our friend No. 6 understand that the correct pharmaceutical therapy can help them.

I dunno, on a multi-causal topic such as "mental illness" we do definitely need to differentiate between organic and "mental" problems (even though there will undoubtedly be a significant amount of overlap.)

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