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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 8:54amSanction this postReply
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Preface to article:

I'm at a point where I'm seriously torn about the viability of the Objectivist movement. What I'm about to present is an indictment on the movement, not the philosophy. I have serious reservations about investing any of my time or energy in a movement split between quasi-cult-like doctrinists and philosophers in the traditional sense.

I was recently banned from another Objectivist forum. A disagreement started over who "owns" objectivism, which resulted in me receiving a warning for being "subjectivist", "insulting Objectivism", and violating the Law of Identity. I was so incensed over the insult that I sent an explicative laden reply to the moderator which led to my banning.

The entire episode led me to question why they would come to the conclusions that 'Objectivism is Ayn Rands philosophy and we have no right to change it' and that 'Objectivism is whatever Ayn Rand says it is'.

It seems that the root, in part, for this strict doctrinism comes from Peikoff's theory of linguistics. I won't go into entirely, as I have only read snippets myself, but my first reaction to it was that it was wholely inadequate and could easily lead to platonic thinking.

And now, the article....

It's Time to Abandon Objectivism

OBJECTIVISM IS DEAD

Although I object to the use of Objectivism as a quasi-registered trademark, for all practical purposes it is "whatever Ayn Rand says" and only whatever she says. That means any original take on Objectivism by Peikoff or the other members of the ARI and TOC is not Objectivism, but their own Peikoffism or whoever-ism. Anyone who wants to expand on Ayn Rand's ideas has no business calling that an Objectivist work. As such, the only real Objectivist point of view came from Ayn Rand, and since she is deceased that point of view is now a historical record. Objectivism is a dead branch of knowledge.

Since it is her ideas that are important, and not the label, it's best to just discard the label, accept the core ideas (most of which she actually borrowed from others), explore all the nuances and relationships between them, and see how they apply to the real world.

I have no interest in promoting Objectivism, but rather the key principles that it is built upon. Objectivism is inextricably bound to Ayn Rand and, for the sake of spreading the core principlies, it is about time we all transcend Ayn Rand and Objectivism. The world doesn't need Objectivism or Ayn Rand, it needs the principles behind it.

MOVING ON

The larger intellectual movement started by Ayn Rand, that supercedes Objectivism, should now be the focus of our efforts. It is important for the sake of these ideas that they be thrust out into the marketplace of ideas to see which ones float and which ones sink. The contraversy surrounding the Objectivist movement has the unfortunate consequence of trivializing our efforts in front of the larger intellectual community. Yes, it is unfair, but the burden is on us to change that perception, not the community at large.

A new movement can also help fasciliate the reconcilation between libertarians and objectivist sympathizers.

A new movement will need a new moniker to proceed under. That is open for discussion, whether it's Neo-Aristotelianism or Randianism or whatever.

Eddie Wood

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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 1:39pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Wood,

I, too, am concerned about "cultism" and the dogmatic urgings by some that others must either accept Ayn Rand's every periferal view verbatim, or be ostracized from the Objectivist community. However, I see no need to bow to this irrational twisting of a filosofy that inherently (and logically) would seek to convince every individual to autonomously employ his own rational mind over that of any authority, Rand included. I also agree with you about the need to extrapolate on the ideas originally constituting Rand's doctrine, and cooperate with individuals of related intellectual convictions.

I do, however, see the abandonment of the term "Objectivism" as capitulating to those who would define it improperly, i.e. giving the proponents of the irrational what they tried to accomplish in the first place. Rather, I have created a Statement of Resolves that would classify anyone affirming it in full as an Objectivist. You can read it and electronically sign it at http://solohq.com/Articles/Stolyarov/An_Objectivist_Statement_of_Resolves.shtml, if you so wish. I would also encourage you to submit your intellectual works for publication on my own filosofical magazine, The Rational Argumentator, with its master index at http://www.geocities.com/rationalargumentator/masterindex.html. I allow individuals to provide a range of views on a given subject and debate these at will, and I have received contributions from Objectivists (ranging from ARI to TOC types), libertarians, classicists, and even religious rightists (some of whose ideas I do, in fact, find quite rational and compatible with Objectivist filosofy).

Your article was an interesting read, and you certainly pose a matter worthy of deliberation.

I am
G. Stolyarov II


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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 1:39pmSanction this postReply
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Mr. Wood,

I, too, am concerned about "cultism" and the dogmatic urgings by some that others must either accept Ayn Rand's every periferal view verbatim, or be ostracized from the Objectivist community. However, I see no need to bow to this irrational twisting of a filosofy that inherently (and logically) would seek to convince every individual to autonomously employ his own rational mind over that of any authority, Rand included. I also agree with you about the need to extrapolate on the ideas originally constituting Rand's doctrine, and cooperate with individuals of related intellectual convictions.

I do, however, see the abandonment of the term "Objectivism" as capitulating to those who would define it improperly, i.e. giving the proponents of the irrational what they tried to accomplish in the first place. Rather, I have created a Statement of Resolves that would classify anyone affirming it in full as an Objectivist. You can read it and electronically sign it at http://solohq.com/Articles/Stolyarov/An_Objectivist_Statement_of_Resolves.shtml, if you so wish. I would also encourage you to submit your intellectual works for publication on my own filosofical magazine, The Rational Argumentator, with its master index at http://www.geocities.com/rationalargumentator/masterindex.html. I allow individuals to provide a range of views on a given subject and debate these at will, and I have received contributions from Objectivists (ranging from ARI to TOC types), libertarians, classicists, and even religious rightists (some of whose ideas I do, in fact, find quite rational and compatible with Objectivist filosofy).

Your article was an interesting read, and you certainly pose a matter worthy of deliberation.

I am
G. Stolyarov II


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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 1:47pmSanction this postReply
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I think a forum’s rules would be determined by its aims. I could well imagine a very strict one for those who understand and agree with Objectivism’s basics—at times I have longed to be in such a forum so I could delve into different kinds of problems than I do here. (And not have to deal with those opponents who are so sure of their views that they feel entitled to be snide.) I prefer to teach than to refute or argue against.

But a looser forum such as SOLO has its place for those who intend to enter intellectual battles. It’s much more realistic. You also begin to see the hierarchical structure of knowledge, and suddenly you start to remember passages from Rand’s work and see them in a new light: “Oh, that’s what she must have meant!” You may decide she was wrong about this or that, or that she was speaking loosely sometimes, or that her wording of something was misleading. But at least you know, and your appreciation of her best thought will deepen.

Nathaniel Branden once said that in his own mind he doesn’t think of his own work as Objectivist psychology, although it is based on that philosophy’s epistemology and metaphysics—that a field’s being divided into different schools of thought is a sign that it is in a very early stage of development. He considers himself to be doing simply psychology.

This might seem to be true of the queen of the sciences; eventually, we should be speaking, not of the Objectivist philosophy, but of just philosophy. But the case of philosophy is different. It deals with the most fundamental issues possible. There are reasons why the same errors will be cropping up for centuries to come.

Not only because every person born has to think his own way afresh through to philosophic truth, but also because, as Ayn Rand noted, evil philosophies are systems of rationalization. Since man has free will, there will always be those who will be motivated to tear down the very structure of existence itself to assuage the torment of their own soul death—just as serial sadist murderers will always emerge from time to time. And some of these persons can be brilliant men, geniuses. (Please note that here I am not saying any particular philosophy is evil just because it is wrong—just noting the principle underlying the likely coming-to-be of such evil. I leave it up to the reader to make judgments about specific systems.)

There are also philosophies created by persons not really intelligent enough to handle philosophy, though they may be literal geniuses in their particular field. They will continue to create systems and get influence and respect.

In short, it may be that we will always need the term “Objectivism” to distinguish the revolution wrought by Rand, no matter how extensively it is altered and develops, from the philosophies of future thinkers who may wish to challenge it in a radical way.

(Edited by Rodney Rawlings on 4/15, 1:50pm)


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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 3:26pmSanction this postReply
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  The Current State of Objectivism 

     I see Objectivism as Philosophy period; meaning Objectivism isn't one of the philosophies on earth, it is philosophy on earth. Objectivism is an absolute, how can it be other wise? If it were not, it wouldn't be Objective, it would be Subjective. So Objectivism must be extreme, extreme to the point where there is no argument, just as in mathematics. It is called Objectivism simply to seperate itself from the other incorrect philosophies; it is important to keep the name because it sums up its fundamental convictions in one word. 
 
      As far as owning Objectivism, Ayn Rand was actually against this type of thought as she said in the voice of reason when she was speaking of copy righting ideas. If there were someone who would own the philosophy though, it would have to be Aristotle ofcourse. The entire philosophy is fundamentally Aristotelian, Ayn simply added to it bringing it one step further to being complete. I can recall when Ayn has pointed out Aristotles mistakes because he had a strong Platonic influence, what exempts her from making mistakes of her own?
   
     I am a mere student of Objectivism, I am not an authority on the subject I still have plenty to learn. As a student, I have found that I have made quite a few mistakes while attempting to understand the philosophy; I am not going to say that  mistakes are a part of the learning process, it is not essential, however it can happen, and it can be beneficial if it is a lesson that will be learned from. This is why I believe it is acceptable for people who have gone passed its fundamentals to be somewhat confused on certain subjects, because Ayn Rand never answered everything, nor do I believe she could have. I believe human beings have certain limits, just as everything else in beautiful, Objective reality; this does not excuse monstrous mistakes as fully understanding the fundamentals of metaphysics, epistemology,ethics,politics and esthetics though. The mistakes I speak of that human beings should have some breathing room to make is the difference between 100% and 90%, not 100% and 0%. The seriousness of the mistakes is definitely something that needs to be considered,especially considering the current cultural trend.

   All Objectivists have witnessed the philosophy's popularity grow at a light speed rate, now that there are more followers, I believe that there will be more and more mistakes. I believe, the biggest mistake Objectivism can make, is attempting to convince other breaks of the philosophy that they are correct. This reminds me of my favorite character of Ayn Rand's, Howard Roark. Howard never wished to convince anyone of his beliefs, he practiced them, and he lived his life as if no one else mattered. He knew, that reality will catch up with the mistakes that others have made, and it will punish all who deny and evade it. The true Objectivists will get what they deserve, which is happiness, and the rest will fall, reality will decide who is right and wrong in the end.

  I do not believe that the split is bad for Objectivism, it is actually a very good thing. What needs to be kept in mind here is, aren't we all in the race for finding right ideas? Obviously we have confirmed the fundamentals of the philosophy, the split is merely err that will complete it. We are narrowing it down day by day, soon it will not be recognized as Objectivism so it can be seperated from other philosophies, it will be an absolute, it will be Philosophy.
 
[Edited to remove personal information]

(Edited by Joseph Rowlands on 3/29, 5:34pm)


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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 4:14pmSanction this postReply
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I forgot to say: Congratulations, Mr. Stolyarov, on your four Atlas icons. I may not always agree with you, but I have to admire your dedication and passion!

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Thursday, April 15, 2004 - 10:48pmSanction this postReply
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Rod,

A forum has every right to make any rules it wants, but to openly invite other people with competing philosophies, like socialists and marxists, and then to expel them for violating Objectivisms tenets is just plain schizoid. Forum owners have to realize that by inviting people of differing philosophies to their forum that they were asking for "subjectivism", "nihilism", or whatever mortal sin -not that I was advocating any of that. I'm used to having to fight tooth-and-nail with socialists and rabid Bush haters, but I never expected this from fellow Objectivists.

There seems to be this sense within Objectivism that we're walking along a razors edge and one small mistake will send us down into moral degradation to the delight of the "pure" Objectivists.

Mr. Stolyarov,

I'm glad you thought my article was interesting. I sent it to the TOC and my local objectivist club. I don't expect the TOC to answer, but I am curious how my other club members will react. The club's founder is a long time friend of mine and was actually the person who got me involved with Objectivism, but I'm worried that he's taking their psychology way too seriously.

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Friday, April 16, 2004 - 8:40amSanction this postReply
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Eddie, you are right. Once you declare a forum to be open in the manner you described, you have to be prepared for all kinds of strong disagreement. The thing about intellectual exchange is that when people express their contrary opinions forcefully, it very often comes off as an insulting tone of voice that was not intended. It is necessary to bend over backwards to avoid this impression, and many people don’t bother to do this. It happened to me just yesterday on the Nathaniel Branden forum. I was even being careful, but still I was misperceived. The problem is exacerbated when some readers happen to be touchy on certain topics.

You have to realize also that on any Objectivist forum there are numerous young people who have only recently encountered Ayn Rand’s thought and are somewhat overzealous in their emulation of her passionate idealism. I tend to like these people, but sometimes the results are unfortunate.

I wanted to add a few things to my post above. I definitely think Objectivism will win, and win big, within a century. Interplanetary travel may have something to do with it. Just as the United States of America had to await the discovery of a new continent, so a deeper and more permanent basis for freedom may only entrench itself after such a quantum leap of location. In other words, we need people starting completely afresh, but starting from a new point zero if you will. In the first case, the new starting point was the intellectual atmosphere post-Renaissance; in the next era, the new starting point will be the intellectual atmosphere post-Rand. It may be the spectacular example of freedom on a second planet that finally turns Earth around also.

My only point is that “the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.” We will never be able to assume that irrationalism is completely dead, and we will, at least for quite a long time, need a name for the philosophy of reason that distinguishes it from all the errors of the past. I think we can all agree that Objectivism is the best name, no matter what alterations or extensions the core body of thought undergoes.

It is tempting to say that in the far, far future the term “Objectivism” may fall by the wayside. But because of the nature of philosophy, its indirect effects over long stretches of time, and the fact that a philosophy can proceed from nefarious psychological motives that can always arise in a being of free will, I don’t think it will. Or if it does, some other adjective may take its place.


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