Defending My Views

Hello all,

I've been away from here for a few weeks now, because my summer job requires me to be out of town most of the week. I hope that I'll be able to spend more time on the boards when I start college in mid-August.

About a month ago, I revealed to my father that I'm an Objectivist, and an atheist. He doesn't accept my views, and has spent a lot of time doing research on the internet to try to invalidate my views. He's quoted from articles saying that Rand claimed on her deathbed that her life was an impossible life to live, and how that she pissed off everyone around here, etc. I tried to counter by saying that just because I believe in most of her fundamental philosophical beliefs, I'm not a "Rand-worshiper" and I don't think she had everything right. I think, from what I've read, most of the people on this board would agree with me. But he still tries to beat down my beliefs, trying to say that it's not consistent for me to do kind things for others, because "it's not in my best self-interest." No matter how often I try to point out that being kind to others IS in my best self-interest, because they will reciprocate the same actions towards myself, he doesn't buy it.

Are there any good resources or arguments that I could use to defend my beliefs when we have our debates? In addition, I'd like to use this thread post things that he says so I can get accurate counter-points to his arguments. He said that he has a 56-page article by a philosophy professor at NYU that denounces Objectivism. Does anyone know of the article that he's referring to?

Post 1

Sunday, August 1, 2004 - 4:36pm

There are plenty of people who have denounced Objectivism. Ignore the paper reference, and tell him to just state the points.

The fact is, you have truth on your side. No matter what he says, no matter how much research he does, the existence of objective reality says one thing on the matter: he can not, in any way, shape, or form beat that.

From what I remember, I believe your father is a theist of some sort...tell him to prove the existence of god. It has never been successfully done. For a good book on that to give you a start, try nearly anything by George H. Smith (Atheism: The Case Against God is probably the best in regards to that). Because your father would asset the existence of a god, it's up to him to prove that he's there. Otherwise, you not only can logically deny it, but should as well. Same goes for souls, afterlives, angels, the leviathan, and unicorns. If he tries to reference faith (and he will), end the argument...you respect the endeavors of the mind, and anybody who doesn't (but nevertheless insists that they're right, and that you should live just as they do) can do nothing more than waste your time in any activity that requires the use of the mind (such as understanding what is right, and how you should live).

If he argues with you about Objectivism, work through the system with him. If he denies the axioms, show him that any attempt to invalidate them relies on their truth. If he denies a logical extrapolation, tell him to point out the flaw in your reasoning. Make him have to tackle the system, step-by-step, not Ayn Rand, whose personal flaws have nothing to do with her philosophical system. Just make sure you understand the system thoroughly; SOLO's Objectivism 101 is pretty good for this as a start.

In short, don't live on the defensive. Don't keep countering his resources. Force him to counter Objectivism. You can't win a war without a counterattack, and a war is exactly the thing that he wanted. Give it to him...consider it a gift. In return, because you are right, you'll get what you want (eventually): peace of mind.

Post 2

Monday, August 2, 2004 - 1:24am

But he still tries to beat down my beliefs, trying to say that it's not consistent for me to do kind things for others, because "it's not in my best self-interest." No matter how often I try to point out that being kind to others IS in my best self-interest, because they will reciprocate the same actions towards myself, he doesn't buy it.

Consider the possibility that your father is right on this particular point. That rational self-interest is no good basis for ethics. Check out the debate in the thread:

Controlling Language

Post 3

Tuesday, August 3, 2004 - 9:49pm

Nix-O-Matic,

Consider the possibility that your father will remain the man you have always known - same flaws and the same virtues. Consider the possibility that your decision to reveal that you are an objectivist and atheist may be mistakenly taken by him as a statement of his own failure to properly direct you as a father. Consider the dynamics of your father/son relationshipand ask yourself exactly what is it you are trying to achieve, and more importantly - why. Your best bet may be to print out a few short essays that cover the fundementals of objectivism, and perhaps The Fountainhead as a gift - followed by --- letting it go. Consider the strong and probable possibility, that while your decision to live as an objectivist has changed the manner in which you percieve yourself - it will never change the manner in which your father will percieve his son.

I am not saying that rational and civil debate between 2 adults that treat each other with equal respect is out of the question - I don't know your father or you. What I am saying is that it is unlikely that any prolonged exchange or debate between the two of you will result in anything more than an unneccassy rift that you will live to regret. Remember this is not an aquintance or casual friend - this is your father, and this particular fact results in a very unique 'context' that must be taken into account at all times.

Sincerely,

George W. Cordero

(Edited by Ision on 8/03, 10:17pm)

(Edited by Ision on 8/03, 10:19pm)

Post 4

Sunday, August 8, 2004 - 12:08pm

Thanks for the advice. I will take some more time to look into this issue when I can. Right now our internet is down and the only place I can get online is the library. I probably won't be back here until I go to school next week. See you then!

Post 5

Monday, August 9, 2004 - 2:22pm