Zionist Israel

Irfan wrote:

The political issue in Israel is that some Muslim shrines are on or adjacent to Jewish shrines. But with a little bit of commonsense and good will, it shouldn't be hard to work out compromises so that Muslims can go to their shrines and Jews can go to theirs.

Few weeks ago, the Israeli authorities disallowed Jews to enter the area of the Western Wall during Tish'a B'av (the memorial day for the destrcution of the Temple by the Romans in 70a.d.) The reason was concern for violence against them by Moslem worshipers at the adjacent Al Aqsa mosque. Some brave Arab leaders are needed to demonstrate common sense and good will.

Post 21

Monday, August 23, 2004 - 6:13pm

Mr. Khawaja,

I think Orion's statement referred not exactly to the fact that there are many Muslim holy sites, but more to the fact that every one they throw up they use as an excuse to tramble on the rights of others. Just because they declare it a "holy site" doesn't give them the right to instigate wars and continue to annex other's land.

Pete,

I may have missed the sarcasm in your statement about the promised land being a desert, but just in case you didn't know, Israel is one of the most fertile places in the Middle East. That's one of the reasons why it's such a hot spot.

Also, you said that ethnicity doesn't seem like a good reason to form a state. I would have to disagree with you, for this reason. It doesn't seem like a good idea to you. In France, they put their adjectives after their nouns. Here in America, we put them before. It would seem ridiculous to an American to say "That sure is a car yellow," but to a Frenchman it makes perfect sense. To a Jew, within the culture they were raised in, to base their state on their culture, religion, and ethnicity makes sense. In fact, it's probably the only way that they feel they could form a state, because their culture stems from their religion and ethnicity. While this may seem like a bad idea to you or me, their identity is fundamentally wrapped in those things. So if you were to imagine yourself with that mindset, and furthermore, as an outcast of the entire world, would you not also create a state for the same reason?

Jeremy Nix

Post 22

Monday, August 23, 2004 - 9:13pm

Mr. Nix,

You write:

I may have missed the sarcasm in your statement about the promised land being a desert, but just in case you didn't know, Israel is one of the most fertile places in the Middle East. That's one of the reasons why it's such a hot spot.

First off, it was Dennis Miller's statement, not mine. And I find humor in it because he was referencing the Old Testament story of Moses and the promised land, which basically implies that God selected a tiny sliver of the Middle East (out of all the other potential sites on planet earth) for his chosen people. Being an atheist, I have a tendency to occasionally laugh when someone pokes fun at the myths of scripture.

Additionally, I don't think your analogy between adjective placement in the French and English languages and views towards collectivism and individualism between Jewish and American cultures is a valid one. The former is a minor semantic issue. I was merely stating that any culture explicity based on a specific religion and ethnicity is far too collectivist for my tastes. Perhaps I come from a priveledged perspective because I was born in a country that was founded instead on an idea - that all are created equal in the eyes of the law, and everyone should have the right to pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness so long as they don't trample of the rights of other individuals. The Founders viewed the creation of America in part as an antidote to the religious and ethnic wars that plagued Europe for centuries.

And as for the Natives who were here before Europeans began settling, they were still given land and a certain degree of sovreignty. And more importantly, they also have the right to vote, and can enjoy full participation in both our civil and government institutions.

So it is from this perspective that I critique the collectivism inherent in the Zionist project.

Post 23

Monday, August 23, 2004 - 10:50pm

Mr. Pete,

I hope that you didn't think I meant insult by what I said. I was only stating that just in case you (or some other reader of the forum) was unaware of that fact.

As far as the analogy goes, I think you said yourself what I was trying to communicate: you criticize because of your perspective and upbringing. We do have a life of privilige here in the United States. I, like you, am proud of the fact that we have freedom that stems from seperation of church and state. I apologize for any misunderstanding that came from poorly explaining what I was trying to communicate.

Jeremy Nix

Post 24

Tuesday, August 24, 2004 - 7:14am