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Post 0

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 9:05amSanction this postReply
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Canada is giving into Muslim fundamentalism in the name of multiculturalism!!!!
I always thought that the nationalism of French Canadians was ugly, and this is the consequence!!!!!
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast_with_frost/3574040.stm

Shari'a law
In Canada, the government of Ontario is considering whether to allow Muslim Courts to resolve civil law disputes by arbitration. That means Canadian Courts would uphold decisions made by Sharia Law on divorce, inheritance and business wrangles, provided those rulings did not violate Canada's charter of rights. But such a move would create enormous controversy because critics, claim Sharia discriminates against women, and that it does not accord them the same rights as men.



Post 1

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 10:30amSanction this postReply
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Marcus,

That's bad.  That's extraordinarily bad. 

If Canada doesn't nip this in the bud right now, we effectively have a Muslim nation to our north.


Post 2

Tuesday, August 17, 2004 - 3:01pmSanction this postReply
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At the very least there should be an absolute requirement that all parties involved in the legal dispute freely consent to have it judged under Sha'ria. Frankly though I am seriously tempted to set aside libertarian principles and argue that this should be prevented even if both parties sincerely want it!

MH


Post 3

Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 5:13amSanction this postReply
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Matthew, I have picked up claims in Aussie papers (always a dubious source of info.) that Muslims in London have been demonstrating and demanding Sharia Law for Muslims living in UK. 
Is this true?


Post 4

Thursday, August 19, 2004 - 4:40pmSanction this postReply
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Cass,

One demonstration was held a few weeks ago, though it was apparently moved from central London to Essex due to safety concerns. According to the Evening Standard (a "local" newspaper for the city of London) the organiser threatened that Sharia law "will be dominant in Britain - either wilfully or through the foreign policy of an Islamic state". The really worrying thing is that I don't recall much mention of this in the national news media - its possible I just wasn't paying attention to the news for some reason that day but I vaguely recall it being reported in The Times (UK broadsheet) and that's about it.

MH


Post 5

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 12:05amSanction this postReply
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Thanks Matthew
This makes the news from Canada even more terrifying as I understand similar claims have been made by Muslims living in France, which has a very high Muslim total proportion population, and it's only going to take one country to fall and set the precedent. I think we should all start thinking right now what we should do to counter this movement. It is, after all the Muslim stated aim - the entire world under Muslim edict.
Cass 


Post 6

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 5:39amSanction this postReply
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Cass,

 

It was not big news over here on a national level.

If it had been, the BBC definitely would have mentioned it in its report on Canada.

As to why it is ignored, I don't have a clue.

Anyway, I would be imagine it would be very difficult for Sharia Law to get a foothold into English common law as the UK has no fixed constitution of its own -  although it will do if the EU constitution comes in. However, even if that occurs (which is unlikely) the EU constitution will still be overruled by English common law.


Post 7

Friday, August 20, 2004 - 11:16pmSanction this postReply
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Hello. I live in Toronto Ontario Canada. In regards to Sharia Law in Canada, from what I recall, this has to do with civil disputes only. Even so, I completely oppose it's application in any context. By allowing the application of Sharia Law puts us Canadians on a dangerous slippery Slope.

Wayne Simmons

Post 8

Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 12:22amSanction this postReply
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Matthew, Marcus
Thanks.  It is a comfort to know it was so small and low key.  However, everything big started off small somewhere.  What really gets to me is the barefaced arrogance of the bastards. Can you imagine the reaction if a group of Western white people settled in say, Saudie Arabia and started demanding Christian based Democracy rule for themselves?  Although I think UK is protected by its Common Law rights, I still feel there's not enough to fully protect against this sort of thing.  And I know that, with the growth of "political correctness" and post-modern philosophy as part of everyday thinking, I really wouldn't put it past a Labour governmnt here to bring something like this in. It's still a huge worry to me.
Cass


Post 9

Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 6:25amSanction this postReply
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(Hi Wayne! I'm in Toronto also.)

Post 10

Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 9:54amSanction this postReply
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This is a story about rising tolerance of Muslim intolerance in the west from a UK national newspaper "The Daily Telegraph".....

Islam is not an exotic addition to the English country garden
By Charles Moore
(Filed:
21/08/2004)

 

One thing we are supposed to welcome in modern Britain is "diversity". The theory is that the mixture of races, cultures and religions which we have more and more become is a source of strength and should therefore be nurtured and celebrated. Although there is a great debate about how strong the overarching idea of Britishness needs to be for the diversity to work, there is clearly much to be said for the theory.

 

The authorities therefore set to work to accommodate, within reason, the special requests of the minorities - the observant Jew who wants to leave work on Friday in time for the beginning of the Sabbath, the Hindu who cannot eat beef, the Muslim traffic warden who does not want to wear a cap badge which includes the sign of the Cross.

 

Some of these questions can create real difficulty - should the Cross, woven into so many national symbols, such as the flag, which mean a great deal to us, really be sacrificed to some people's feelings? But if the wish to be distinctive is genuinely mixed with the desire to participate, then a way can usually be found.

So you might think it is good news that "Islamic banking" is now taking hold. This month saw the launch of Britain's first fully regulated and approved Sharia-compliant bank, the Islamic Bank of Britain. And the big banks have also developed Islamic banking arms. The need for these is said to arise because the Koran forbids "riba", which is interest, or usury.

 

Yet Muslims need money and banks need to make a living. Systems are devised to get round the ban. For example, instead of a Muslim holding a mortgage for a house, the bank can own the house and make arrangements for the Muslim gradually to buy it off the bank over a period of years. HSBC now boasts of "Our Sharia Board" stuffed with learned sheikhs and Justices from Arabia and Pakistan. Isn't all this an encouraging example of how the resourcefulness of modern free societies can achieve tolerance and market efficiency?

 

But when you look a little further into the question of Islamic banking, you find that it is not, in fact, required by Islam. Al-Azhar University, in Cairo, the main and ancient home of Sunni religious learning, teaches that "riba" means extortionate interest, not any interest at all, and that moderate interest should be permitted. Most Egyptian banks charge and pay interest. Even Muslims who reject this interpretation say that the doctrine of "extreme necessity" permits Muslims in non-Muslim countries to pay interest.

 

So what is being proposed with Islamic banking is actually a hardening of the religion, not an accommodation of its existing custom. It is rather as if Catholics, arriving in large numbers in a Muslim country, insisted that they must eat fish rather than meat on a Friday, a rule which has been dropped by the Church in modern times. And when you look at HSBC's Sharia Board you find that a couple of its members have links with the Deoband, the long-standing ultra-conservative group whose schools in Pakistan educated many of the Taliban.

 

Two others are Wahhabis, trained by the intolerant and puritanical school of thought that dominates the religious life of Saudi Arabia. If HSBC had a Christian Banking Board would they staff it with disciples of the Rev Ian Paisley, the Rev Jerry Falwell and the followers of the late Archbishop Lefebvre, rather than nice Dr Rowan Williams or Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor?

 

I return to the question of diversity. What happens if an important element of the mixture does not itself believe in diversity, but solely in the advance of its own interest? I was very struck by a remark of Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the militant but apparently mainstream theologian and supporter of suicide bombing, whose visit to the Regent's Park mosque last month caused a fuss.

 

Justifying his view that all Israelis are legitimate targets, he has declared: "Islam says that the majority prevails on all and the rare has no rule." Reading and asking about this, I find that although many, many Muslims would not apply this teaching to the Israelis as he does, they do confirm that this attitude to the idea of a minority is part of the religion.

 

Islam means "submission" (not "peace") and it is the aim of Muslims ("those who have submitted") to make the whole world submit. The teaching seems not to envisage the idea of Muslims as a minority, except as a temporary phenomenon. The best that non-Muslims - in Britain that means Sikhs and Hindus, as well as Jews and Christians - can hope for is that they be treated as "dhimmis", second-class citizens within the Islamic state.

 

Well, you might say, Christians want the whole world to be Christian, so what is the difference? The difference seems to lie in the attitude to politics. For many centuries now, Christians have developed the idea that there is a separation between Church and state, between what you may believe and what you may enforce. Islam does not seem to have the same idea.

 

In a fascinating new research project on Islam in modern Britain conducted by the Institute for the Study of Islam and Christianity, the author, Patrick Sookhdeo, quotes from a best-selling book put out by the influential and longstanding Muslim Educational Trust called Islam: Belief and Teachings.

 

"Religion and politics," it says, "are one and the same in Islam." Mohammed did not only preach in Mecca; he also ruled in Medina, and he conquered. The Sharia is a code of law to be imposed, in all societies, by the public authorities. It calls, among other things, for apostates - those who have abandoned Islam - to be put to death.

David Blunkett wants a law to prohibit religious insult. He presumably does not see this as a step along the road to item 295c of the Pakistan penal code, which makes defiling the name of Mohammed punishable by death. But many Muslims would.

It does not necessarily follow that most Muslims will try to impose their beliefs on this country by violence. We see all around us the evidence of hundreds of thousands of people living peacefully and productively with their neighbours. But it perhaps does mean that we cannot just regard Islam in Britain as a charmingly exotic addition to the English country garden.

 

According to its own beliefs, particularly in their currently militant form, it is much more acquisitive.

 

Islam seeks an ever greater share of the British public space. That is why Muslims were so keen on introducing a religious question into the latest census, why they seek legal acceptance of their marriage laws, and why they want state money for Muslim schools.

 

Once there are Islamic financial institutions, how long will it be before Muslims insist that the state and business direct all their monetary dealings with Muslims through these institutions (boycotting businesses with Jewish connections en route)? How long before Muslims, extending the logic of their concentration in places like Bradford and Leicester, seek to establish their own law within these areas, the germ of a state within a state? And how diverse would such a state be?


Post 11

Sunday, August 22, 2004 - 3:24amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for posting this Marcus - although god knows it does nothing to allay my fears!!  This is exactly what I mean about the few protections we have - there are so many ways through a society apart from ordinary Parliamentary Laws and it's long been my fear that these bastards are carefully exploring and finding them. But we would have no fears if it wasn't for the fifth element among us.  History shows that civilizations collapse from the inside, leaving huge gaps for invaders to take over through.  Our current "fifth element" are these post-modern "luvvies", (as they are being occationally refered to in Aus).  I am afraid that by the time the average Joe wakes up to what is happening, it will be too late.
I'm more fearful of the spread and rise of Islam than I am of anything else. I just don't know how we can stop it.
Cass  


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