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Post 20

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 8:27amSanction this postReply
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Hong,

I second Mike’s idea. That would be a great article!

Jon


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Post 21

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 2:19pmSanction this postReply
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Mike and Jon,

C'mon men, I have a grant to write and now instead of thinking about my Research Plan I can’t stop thinking about Taiwan! Urrrgh.

Mike, your gut feeling is right, I am largely at odds with most Mainland Chinese on issues regarding Taiwan (and Tibet, but please let’s don’t go there). I can’t possibly write anything comprehensive on “Taiwan Situation” - I am generally in agreement with your guys on the issue - but I think I may be able to give you some ideas as to why most Mainland Chinese scholars here in US have that kind of attitude toward Taiwan Independence issue.

Before I came to the US and had lived here for a while, my thoughts were pretty much in the same lines as the Communist government. The main reason is that we were brought up in such rhetorics that “The Treasure Island Taiwan is part of China since the ancient times” and that “it is an inseparable part of our great Motherland.” etc. etc. To support such claim, a single historic event were taught over and over again in which the heroic Chinese General Cheng Cheng-kung of the Ming Dynasty, sailed from the mainland to Taiwan in 1662, defeated Dutch colonists, and “reclaimed” Taiwan back to the bosom of our Motherland. These are all deeply engrained in our knowledge system and in our way of thinking. As anybody who has a basic knowledge of Taiwan history may know that this sense of history as we have been told is completely false. I believe that the high Chinese Communist officials are fully aware of the real history of Taiwan, but use this kind rhetoric to brainwash the mass of not-so-well-educated and younger generations, in order to rally the people under the great banner of patriotism in their fight with Kuomintang.

The old habit, or the old way of thinking, dies hard, as we all know. For many Chinese people here in US, they go about their studies, works, and everyday lives. They may whole-heartedly embrace the American way of life. However, not all things that they have learnt long ago vanish or change automatically without hard thinking or purposefully seeking the truth. That’s probably why these Mainland Chinese people, as smart as they maybe in their respective professions, still stick to their old belief about Taiwan. I think that they may still hold that patriotism is a nobler notion than individualism.

            As for my own change of view on Taiwan, it came gradually. First, I recognize that Taiwan is, if not in name, but IN FACT an independent country since 1949. It used to be THE legitimate government of ALL China in the eyes of world until 1972, when its seat in UN was thrown out, and PRC was accepted in. This was a great triumph of China’s Communist government’s diplomacy. For many years PRC has poured loads of monetary and human aids to some third world countries while leaving her own citizens live in the most subhuman conditions. In 1989, I’ve also come to the realization that the Mainland Chinese government was no longer a legitimate government representing Chinese people. They became illegitimate long ago but I only was able to realize it after the June 4th of 89’. So for me there it went their claim for Taiwan too. Still sometime later, when I finally recognized that individual freedom and happiness is above all other slogans and ideologies, my view on Taiwan were naturally come to place.

I think that Mainland Chinese people need to first learn the real history of Taiwan. They also need to realize where exactly their loyalty is placed – the government, the country, or the people. For us, it is clear that people (or individuals) are above all others.

My current view of Taiwan is that it is in fact, though not in name, an independent country. Its statue in international community and its contributions to world economical and political affairs have been prominent and positive. Taiwan and its people deserve the recognition, respect, and full benefits of an independent sovereign country. It is a shame that the only thing (or nearly the only thing) that prevented Taiwan and the rest of the world to do so is the threat from PRC. PRC has never been unclear about its position: independence means war. Now I come upon unfamiliar territories of politics and military tactics in the area, e.g., I don’t know whether PRC is bluffing or not.  All I can say is I honesty don’t know which (declare independence or not) would be the best route for the people of Taiwan to continue pursuing their remarkable prosperity and ever more increased liberty.

Perhaps, in an ideal world, Taiwan and mainland are best to be unified, since we share the same language and culture and are now economically inseparable. But that is not possible now given the economical inequality of the two areas and the simple fact that the Mainland is still ruled by a totalitarian government whose legitimacy is based on lies and the repression of truth.

 





Post 22

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 4:22pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

Great post! 

You almost have an article!

Just edit here, add some more context there, link to Objectivism and the individual elsewhere .

(Edited by Next Level on 12/30, 4:25pm)


Post 23

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 6:09pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

You raise a good question about the PRC—are they bluffing? It’s a dangerous bluff, one they hope assures that Taiwan will not declare. My understanding is that China has previously lacked the ability to take Taiwan, but soon (2-10 yrs.?) will be capable. They are arming rapidly for the task. We can either arm Taiwan to the hilt to match the PRC, or clarify our ambiguousness whether we would or would not fight along with the Taiwanese toward the former policy, or we could abandon the Taiwanese.

I second your sentiment as to eventual unification. So long as the PRC rules however, it would be wrong and I can’t see us abandoning the Taiwanese to a dictatorship. That would embolden the PRC like nothing else could. (What next, Singapore?) I tend to come down on the Taiwanese side. We should openly declare that an invasion force would be destroyed the moment it is detected. Time is on our side. I don’t think the PRC will survive the next depression.

Jon


Post 24

Thursday, December 30, 2004 - 7:35pmSanction this postReply
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Next Level, thank you very much for your encouragement. But that's it for now. :-). Just a few ready thoughts I have on the issue.

Jon,
Bluffing or not, PRC so far achieved admirably their goal to suffocate Taiwan in its diplomatic fronts. Given Taiwan's wealth they could have had more influence in the world had they been a full fledged independent country. Well, just my opinion.

I really don't have much idea about PRC's military capacity. But given the overwhelming sentiment that most Chinese people have on this issue, I think we have to take PRC's threat seriously. Also remember PRC has the A-bomb and even the H-bomb. That makes things more complicated. One thing I know for sure though is that we should keep on penetrating the Mainland economically and ideologically. The more open their system become, the harder it is for them do do anything outrageous.


Post 25

Saturday, January 1, 2005 - 2:11pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

Your mini-article was very good. Thank you for writing it. I also followed your link to the "Milestones in Taiwan History". A very complicated history. Most of which I was ignorant of.

The following excerpt from an fee article by Doug Bandow "Appeasing China, Backing Taiwan?" [http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=4831] agrees with your assessment:

"Taiwan exercises a surprisingly powerful hold on Chinese emotions. More than a century of domestic weakness and foreign domination are yielding to growing affluence and influence. Strong is the desire to use that new power to reunify a country artificially dismembered in past years."

"Nationalistic feeling toward Taiwan is not limited to communist officials. It is shared by many Chinese expatriates. A surprising number of westernized Chinese professionals turn into raving Sino-nationalists when the question of Taiwan arises. "

What bothers me is even writers who must know the history of Taiwan continue to define the problem as one of "reunifying Taiwan with the mainland". China does not control Taiwan now, why can't we just recognize the wishes of the people of Taiwan. Also, who knows what a dictatorial regime is going to do? How to predict personalities who are mainly interested in keeping and holding power and may use an issue like Taiwan as a political tool of misdirection to maintain their hold on the population of China. "Never mind you live at the whim of tyrants, we must liberate Taiwan".

Ultimately I probably won't discuss this issue with Robert. We talk infrequently these days, it wouldn't be appropriate to bring up an emotionally charged issue. And he must do the "hard thinking" and "purposefully seeking the truth" [quoting from your words], for himself.

I have enormous respect for your own "hard thinking" and "purposely seeking the truth". Thank you for your response to my request.
Mike Erickson

Post 26

Saturday, January 1, 2005 - 8:46pmSanction this postReply
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Mike,
You are very welcome. I appreciate your interest in this particular issue very much.

Another interesting thing is, for many years, mainland China and Taiwan KMT government had used exactly the same, word to word, "One China" rhetoric to rally their people. To reunify with mainland under their (KMT) government has been the dream of the old generation of Taiwan's leaders. It was only after the late 1980, when the democratic political process began in Taiwan, and the KMT lost in election, that the independence came to be a real issue.  
How to predict personalities who are mainly interested in keeping and holding power and may use an issue like Taiwan as a political tool of misdirection to maintain their hold on the population of China.
This is very right. I always thought PRC would do anything if they could get away with it. But it's just getting harder and harder nowadays. I read some recent Chinese papers over the weekend. It seems like that the tone of PRC's proposed "Anti-Separatists Bill" has been tune down ever so slightly: instead of "armed force", "non-peaceful solutions" will be used if Taiwan declare independence.

It might have helped me that my US graduate school advisor is a Taiwanese. I admire and respect him tremendously. We never discussed anything political though. I think if you ever want to discuss the issue of Taiwan with mainland Chinese, make sure that he has a similar understanding of the historic facts as you do. A lot of histories that we learnt in China, especially the modern history, were highly distorted. I think even today, the sensitive subjects are still controlled by the government as to how they should be presented.

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 1/02, 10:23am)


Post 27

Monday, January 3, 2005 - 6:35pmSanction this postReply
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Hong,

Have you seen the movie, "Hero"?

If so, what do you think of it?  "One China" reminded me of this thread, and I was wondering if the movie was a form of propaganda or something (very beautifully made propaganda, by the way :)).


Post 28

Monday, January 3, 2005 - 8:34pmSanction this postReply
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Next Level,
For reasons I don't even know,  I haven't seen "Hero" yet.

I do know the history quite well from Chinese classical historical literatures.  Emperor Chin has always been regarded highly for his vision and superb political and military tactics that brought about a unified China for the first time in history and laid the foundation for the next thousand years of prosperous periods. However, there are also tremendous respect and admiration for those "seperatists" including real assassins, for their loyalty, moral principle and courage.

Also when people talking about "One China" today, some of them often forget that for most of the time in history, China is much smaller than what it is today. This Map of Chin shows the original boundaries of China. Ironically, only during the two great non-Chinese (Han) dynasties, Yuan (Mongul) and Qing (Manchu), that the Empire was bigger that what it is today. (well, there goes China's historical claim for Tibet).

 

(Edited by Hong Zhang on 1/03, 8:39pm)


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