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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 12:58pmSanction this postReply
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I, too, did not want to leave this forum without explaining my reasons, or without expressing my gratitude to those who have enriched my life beyond measure.

 

To all of you who have sent notes and personal messages, I thank you, and I appreciate the value you have placed upon my contributions here.

 

I want to be clear that my reasons for leaving are specific to me; they are not due to David Elmore’s moderation.  I do think the moderation was warranted given his inappropriate commentary; however I disagree with the manner in which it was conducted.  But that is neither here nor there.

 

Why I am leaving, and why I am so utterly disappointed, is that in making an honest inquiry with a question I found to be completely reasonable, said question was answered with a diatribe of insults — the likes of which I never expected to receive as someone who goes out of her way to be benevolent and careful in the crafting of her words.

 

The sheer hypocrisy of the action itself is laughable — that on a thread pertaining to manners, all were abandoned, and the very kind of insults that caused a person to be moderated were hurled by the moderator himself.

 

These were not *mock* insults.  They attacked my ability to think, my understanding of capitalism, my maturity — and in the end, my integrity. 

 

Some have told me to laugh it off, to take a few days off and let cooler heads prevail.  However, my reaction is not based on emotion, but on principle.  To remain on a forum where questions are treated in such a manner — and where that kind of behavior is condoned, but the similar behavior of others is not — is not appropriate for someone whose life has been committed to reason and benevolence.  To be told to run lest I be caught in a spew of vomit seems no more appropriate than if my words were to be called "diarrhetic tripe."

 

It pains me greatly to depart from here, as I have made many friends both on and offline who have brought me an abundance of joy, and I have savored interacting with you tremendously.  You know who you are, and that I will remain in touch.

 

However, my sadness is eased by seeing the following comment which, by default, has to include me.  I will let the words speak for themselves:

 

How wonderful to see this article resurface at precisely the time SOLO has been temporarily overrun by poseurs, solipsists, hypocrites, cowards, pretend-gurus & morons. One glorious, golden note from Mario, which these amoebae are incapable of hearing, is enough to blast them to whatever fake, marshmallow planet it is they aspire to. Long may they stay there!

 

And so I shall.

 

Adieu.


Post 1

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:14pmSanction this postReply
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Good luck, Jennifer. I admire the stand you've taken and I hope to see you sooner than later, perhaps at an Objectivist occasion in the not too distant future.

Good premises,

Jim


Post 2

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:21pmSanction this postReply
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Sorry to see you go, Jennifer, I have enjoyed your posts and your absense will no doubt diminish the value this site brings to me. 

I cant help but wonder what all this ruckus is about, clearly I missed some heated discussions, discussions strong enough to push some people away from this place.  Can someone point me to these discussions?  if they were enough to drive Jennifer and Kelly away I think they should very well contain some information which would make me more properly able to assess the value of this forum to me, and the people on it and it's general sense of being.

Regards,

Michael Dickey


Post 3

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:28pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer, I'm really sorry about this. I enjoyed your presence here.

Please stay in touch, okay?



Post 4

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:37pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

You will be much missed, though your position is totally understandable given what's been said.

Thank you for all you have done here, all the work you put in for SOLO and all the joy you bought us.

MH



Post 5

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:45pmSanction this postReply
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Michael,

I think Jennifer took her leave pursuant to http://solohq.com/Forum/GeneralForum/0487.shtml, particularly Lindsay's post 48.

Jordan


Post 6

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 1:47pmSanction this postReply
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Hi Jen,

I have already spoken about David's moderation in that thread, but I want to comment on your leaving and the reason's thereof.

 Once again I note my respect for the owners, Joe, Jeff, and Lindsay. There efforts have been a great value to me. I note my support for their rights to express their opinions and to moderate whom they will. My posts in the other thread speak to this clearly.

As for the the comments made that are the reason for Jen's departure, I think they were wrong. At the least such comments should be directed by name to those worthy of them, so that those being commented upon don't have to guess if the comment was meant for them or not. If you meant to include Jen in the scope of your comment Lindsay, I think you were wrong to do so. You're free to make such comments of course, but the cost has been high, I would guess. If you didn't intend the comment to be directed at or inclusive of her, then you should see being clear in the aim of your comments is important.

That's all. I just saddened by this whole affair.

Ethan


Post 7

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 2:02pmSanction this postReply
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    Jen, the lack of your presence will diminish SOLO greatly. Your Culinary contributions, while probably the least specifically Objectivist contributions here, embody the ideal of what Ayn Rand wished to create. They certainly were not the least in achievement.

 Whatever you do, I wish you well.

Shine on...:(

(Edited by Joe Maurone on 6/14, 2:04pm)


Post 8

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 2:30pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

I am sorry that it has come to this.

Good luck for the future.


Post 9

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 2:41pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer, I miss you already...



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Post 10

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 6:43pmSanction this postReply
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Bob Palin, my feelings about what's been happening on Solo are exactly those in your post: anger and deep sadness.


Jennifer dear, as I told you in our private correspondence, I am so very sorry that you are leaving Solo, but I fully understand why you find it necessary. You will be sorely missed. You and your contributions have been greatly valued -- even by Lindsay, until now. Our budding friendship does not end here; it will continue and grow.

Barbara


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Post 11

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer:

We've barely met and already you're heading for the hills. Was it something I said? My breath? I could change my deodorant...

What would it take to get you to change your mind? Big, strong men grovelling at your knees or clinging to your ankles?

Bribery? I have a little saved up, not quite three million. Would that help?

I know! Something sinfully rich, in a truffle sauce. Things that make you go mmmmmmm.

Maybe just a good reason. I can think of several:
  • No group, anywhere, will be without people who offend us.
  • You can do more for yourself by staying with the group and helping to reform the culture and attitudes so that bad guys don't say mean things to nice girls.
  • You can hang around and kick the asses (or forgive, or both) of those who've offended you.
  • You can reward a guy named Nathan for humiliating himself by begging.
Well, if this obvious attempt at manipulation and heartstring-tugging doesn't work, I'll miss your cute little mug on SOLO's pages.

Nathan


Post 12

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 7:20pmSanction this postReply
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I'm posting the following on several relevant threads:

I wonder at the message these public feuds are transmitting to the world. They seem to be saying that being an Objectivist -- like being in love -- means never having to say you're sorry.


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Post 13

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 8:11pmSanction this postReply
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Ms. Iannolo, initially I was saddened on the news that you will be leaving SOLO. But now I am just angry. And you you don't want to see me angry young lady...

So sorry to do this but....





If you don't resume posting here in 24 hours, your cousin Vinny will get it!


Don't think Tony and Rocco can escape the same fate!

And bring some of those macaroons!

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Post 14

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 9:09pmSanction this postReply
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This is to let you know that Regina & I are talking, with a view to patching things up as soon as possible. Can't say how long it might take, but we're both going to give it our best shot in good faith.

Linz


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Post 15

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 9:14pmSanction this postReply
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Jennifer,

    You were the first woman to welcome me to SOLO and some one who has hung in there with me during my own tough time. You're such an amazing woman, with so much talent. I have never even met you, and I cannot say enough good things about you. One thing I can say, you made an impression on me. Thank you, and good luck. I know you will not let this diminish the passion you have for what you love. Who knows? Maybe some day we'll see each other! If you're ever in Atlanta...

    A sad, sad day for Objectivism.

~Nicki Theberge  


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Post 16

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 9:59pmSanction this postReply
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Linz and Jennifer,

Please kiss and make up.
We love you both.

Kat & Michael


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Post 17

Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 10:30pmSanction this postReply
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> " endless personal sniping...this spectacle is being transmitted around the world and archived permanently on a site supposedly celebrating the Objectivist sense of life!" [Robert Bidnotto on another thread]

>"Wouldn't it be simpler for a policy of NO PERSONAL INSULTS: INSULT ONE -- YOU ARE MODERATED; INSULT TWO -- YOU ARE BANNED to be established?" [Barbara Branden on another thread]



> "Regina & I are talking, with a view to patching things up as soon as possible." [Linz]

That's good news. Lindsay, while I personally don't think there were grounds for people to withdraw from Solo, I think one lesson you (and the rest of us) should draw from all this is the extremely negative and demoralizing -practical- effects on a movement of insults or expressions of contempt - yours very clearly included.

It's your choice whether you want Solo to grow and be a happy community of friends who have the sense they respect each other IF THE PRICE IS your deciding to curtail some of your own more contemptuous statements about members who anger you or cut you to the quick...and deciding to thus set an example for how other members will treat their opponents.

Yes, I realize that others are at fault here. But a leader's example is always imitated. And many are just following your precedent. Or saying if it's okay for him to do it, I am going to do it too.

Insults or expressions of fundamental contempt toward those who share a very high percentage of fundamental values are -never- a good idea. And the deepest reason is because fundamental contempt is -inaccurate- when expressed toward those people, given how much one has in common on other issues or on philosophy, character, etc.

The insults of Mencken, Churchill when appropriate were directed at people who did not share fundamental philosophy or views of the world with them. And also the context is very different for a very tiny and fragile movement that seems to self-destruct...for this very reason...every dozen years or so.

--Philip Coates

Note: I am not talking here about what is clearly hyperbole for effect, scathing comments directed in an over-the-top and often humorous tone. That's an issue of personal style.

> "People are not likely to want to deal with you if you treat them like children. You can let people know you disagree with them, that you believe they are wrong, without saying "Only idiots believe that!" or worse." [Rick Pasotto on another thread]

(Edited by Philip Coates
on 6/14, 10:35pm)


Post 18

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 12:29amSanction this postReply
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Phil, your post is excellent, and I hope it will be heeded.

Barbara

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Post 19

Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 1:20amSanction this postReply
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Linz:

This is to let you know that Regina & I are talking, with a view to patching things up as soon as possible.
Best news I have heard this week :-)

Robert and Phil both make good points here too (though personally I do understand why Jennifer left, as I've made clear elsewhere), as has Barbara on various threads. Yes in one sense SOLO is property, but in another sense it's also a growing community. From the latter perspective, it's not good if the brightest and best, who bring the most value here, keep having these kinds of bust ups.

MH


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