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Monday, June 20, 2005 - 6:43pmSanction this postReply
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I've been having difficulty accepting an idea that Ayn Rand holds as an ethical necessity for objectivist thought. According to her, there should be a decisive, definite division between government and the economy, because only with such an arragement could humans condcut free trade, benefit and prosper by a sound system of reciprocality, and compromise for no other reason then to acheive a medium between differing stakes between two traders. At a glance, this idea seems entirely justifiable.

However, when we examine this model in America today, I can see some examples of the model which are entirely anti-objectivist and for that matter, anti-ethical and anti-moralist. The separation between government and economy means that the flow of the economy is directly controlled by the companies that particiapte in the economic trade. Generally, this means that the economy is controlled and directed by the "major participants", who are the big corporations and brand name giants. And if the economy of America, which, I must add, is the most vital function in domestic America, is controlled by giant corporations whose agendas are dictated by the unhapmered pursuit of wealth, how can the implications of this be pro-objectivist? If you examine it, ginat corporations will forfeit any right of humans to reap a profit, and this means issuing "capitalist propaganda", excessive advertising, indirect thought control, and other intellectually and morally demeaning tools, how can this be ethcially correct? Free trade is an admirable quality, but the freedom can be abused within the parameters of what freedom constitutes, and this can mean that the ethical value of humans can be tread over, and all of this done legally. I can understand how communism is not a resolution to the problem, but I believe Rand has not exactly suggested the ideal mode of an economy.

Furthermore, it seems that hte only way to succeed in such an economy is to deploy such methods. To cut advertising, brand names, sponsorship, and propaganda would mean to cut the corporate lifeline, and to bring death upon the business. Ethical negligence is the only way to succeed in this system, and I certainly hope it can be reformed without manifesting into communsim.


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Monday, June 20, 2005 - 8:18pmSanction this postReply
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ABAH,

What happens if what you think might happen, i.e. rampant propaganda, doesn't. Instead, what if those companies simply started competing and instead of their over-advertising, they simply started making better products?

I suppose that's tautology, and you do of course have a point, I just wanted to throw out an alternative.

Joe


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Tuesday, July 19, 2005 - 9:53pmSanction this postReply
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ABAH,

Most Americans, indeed even most other humans, are not entirely bowled over by the advertising of large corporations.  When a large corporation provides either bad service or bad products, it is quickly replaced in the marketplace by a company offering better service and better products.  There are many, many large companies of 100, 50, and 25 years ago which are much less important in the marketplace today than they were then.  There are many upstart companies who are much stronger now or who did not even exist then.  The capitalist marketplace is very dynamic and generally pretty ruthless in eliminating the incompetent and the lazy.


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Wednesday, July 20, 2005 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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ABAH:

In order for anyone to respond adequately you will have to quit hiding behind generalities. Specifically, what in your view is an example of propaganda as opposed to advertising? If it is composed of false statements why haven't the competitors countered them?

"The separation between government and economy means that the flow of the economy is directly controlled by the companies that particiapte (sic) in the economic trade. Generally, this means that the economy is controlled and directed by the "major participants", who are the big corporations and brand name giants."

How is the economy "controlled" by the corporations, other than providing as service or product that is useful and desired? Please name the corporations so that there is something tangible to discuss.

"And if the economy of America, which, I must add, is the most vital function in domestic America, is controlled by giant corporations whose agendas are dictated by the unhapmered (sic) pursuit of wealth, how can the implications of this be pro-objectivist?"

How is providing the citizens of the US with useful and desired products not pro-Objectivist?

"... ginat (sic) corporations will forfeit any right of humans to reap a profit, and this means issuing "capitalist propaganda", excessive advertising, indirect thought control, and other intellectually and morally demeaning tools, how can this be ethcially (sic) correct?"

How do giant corporations prevent anyone from reaping a profit? Do you mean my many neighbors who are in business for themselves and seem to be doing just peachy? Or do you mean Google and EBay and Amazon that sprang from nowhere to become some of the biggest corporations in the world? How about Microsoft and Apple who took on IBM?

"To cut advertising, brand names, sponsorship, and propaganda would mean to cut the corporate lifeline, and to bring death upon the business."

How on earth do you think that consumers can know about a product unless it is advertised? Word of mouth or telepathy?

You seem to have avoided being "brainwashed". Do you think that it might be because you used your critical faculties? Why do you suppose that others can't do that as well?

Sam



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