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Post 40

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 2:47amSanction this postReply
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Heh, I can just see my own parents telling all their friends I'm gay because some picture of me at a Lambda dance was published in the local paper or something.

Seconds to Pete's Post 33. I've really liked and enjoyed a lot of Adam's contributions to SOLO (and Objectivism in general), but this end of the pool is looking deeper and deeper by the minute.

Sorry to hear you're not looking for a man Halina, or I'd hit you up in a second! Anything I can do to "persuade" you to write an article, let me know!


Post 41

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 5:11amSanction this postReply
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Thanks for the recommendation for my matchmaking services.  It looks like Halina has at least three guys interested.  You go girl!   I highly recommend that she goes out with Jason.  He is a great guy and also local. 

Good luck and let me know how it goes.

Kat


Post 42

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 7:07amSanction this postReply
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The one cliche that I just can't help but love:  turning lemons into lemonade...and then freezing it, blending it, adding some stoli, and you've got a party on your hands.  Gentlemen, thanks for the interest!  You've got me grinnin and gigglin like a little girl...(wait, I don't want those kinds of guys...lol).
 
So you're in town, Jason?  Semester's over in 8 weeks, I'll drop you a line.
 
Happy November all,
;-)  Halina


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Post 43

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 7:19amSanction this postReply
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Andrew,

The "deep end" comment normally would deserve a reply, and if it only concerned me, a substantive reply would be on its way. I have nothing to hide, so I have written often about how a political issue is personally relevant to me. On the basis of information available to me at the time, and because my communication was cut off under circumstances that the people involved would not want me to post about here, all that I can do now is to assure you that my decision was based on the most accurate judgement that could be made in the full context of information available to me at that time.

What makes "judge and stand ready to be judged" a reasonable way to live is attention to "context, context, context." Without attention to context one is dealing with a bad case of half-KASSed opinion, not rational judgement.


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Post 44

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 9:43amSanction this postReply
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Lemons or lemonade, shouldn't this whole thread come down? The "Who is Andy Postema" thread is questionable as it is.

What about newcomers? What about people that have just been exposed to AR's work, and are looking for a place to learn and discuss?

We go on and on discussing 1968, as if it had the same kind of impact on growth that current things do. If there is a marketing aspect to spreading the word about Objectivism, Objectivism needs a consulting firm.

People carefully evaluate where they are going to spend their time and who they are going to associate with- online is no exception. If a person has become energized and intrigued by AR, they will likely go to the web and start exploring. What they will see are split factions, putting dead bodies in catapaults and throwing them over the wall at each other, in between arguing over something that they probably know little about.

They might also notice that SOLO is the most active, developed and varied Objectivist-based forum on the Internet. And, they will see this.

When you are a part of a community, you represent yourself to that community in a certain way, and represent yourself as a part of it to the outside world.

The community, by default or intention, represents itself to the world in one way or another.

What are we doing?


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Post 45

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 6:33pmSanction this postReply
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"I have an idea:

Why don't we forget about Objectivism, a philosophy that can change the world, entirely...and turn this into the Jerry Springer show?"

Good grief, Phil! As if real life has nothing to do with Objectivism??  It's supposed to be a "practical" way of existing on Earth, is it not?  I thought Rand's whole intent was to push Objectivism out of the Ivory Tower window and into the mainstream. That's how it's supposed to "change the world," isn't it?

I'll tell you what Objectivism won't change. It won't change some pretty basic human behaviours, like getting angry because you're constantly and unjustly maligned by someone you'd much rather admire than despise.

Some people take pride in being a deserted emotional island. I'll never understand those people. They remind me of Eddie Willer's rotten oak tree.  Not so strong and healthy after all, despite of appearance.


Post 46

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 10:59pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa, I'm not following you...are you saying something about this thread, or what should be on it, or what exactly? I didn't understand what point you were making, specifically.
Phil

Post 47

Tuesday, November 1, 2005 - 11:09pmSanction this postReply
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I read she said 'Objectivism is in everything and everything is in Objectivism so, as this be our music, play on.'

Post 48

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 5:35amSanction this postReply
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"Teresa, I'm not following you...are you saying something about this thread, or what should be on it, or what exactly? I didn't understand what point you were making, specifically."

The point is that Andy's motives are nothing similar to the "Jerry Springer" show. Not in my view, anyway.  

I know you don't like it when it gets hot in here, but it's going to happen. You're ignoring the reason it got hot to begin with, and then calling it "contemptable" when Andy calls the reason onto the carpet.

Gotta go!


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Post 49

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 7:30amSanction this postReply
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Teresa,

Are you going along the line that families will have squabbles, that is healthy, etc.? I agree. Do you think that when that happens, as it must, that the families should walk out their front door and take care of business in the middle of the street?

As a community, do you think that this particular thread serves the long-term goals of the community? Does it do anything for Objectivism?

Is it healthy and appropriate for charges involving something like this to be put on any public forum or website? The only place I know of where this is done is on sexual offenders databases, which are for convicted sexual offenders. And, even if so, on an intellectual/philosophical forum?

Who of any of us is so wise that they can do something like this and know that it will not negatively affect the family? What if something like this was done, and it was the final straw that triggered  action on an existing suicidal ideation? This is Russian Roulette, these are people's lives.

What makes this any more acceptable than the Drooling Beast article? Is this all just good show business?

(Edited by Rich Engle on 11/02, 7:32am)

(Edited by Rich Engle on 11/02, 7:33am)


Post 50

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 7:41amSanction this postReply
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Rich,

You just asked:
Is this all just good show business?
Yep.

Michael


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Post 51

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 8:12amSanction this postReply
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MSK, Teresa, Rich, everyone:
 
It wasn't my intent to make this site into some kind of exhibitionist family melodrama.  I saw it as an opportunity to get a morsel of my dignity back...If I'd been a coworker or something, would you all have felt differently?  Understandably, it is far more uncomfortable to see someone's daughter correct misinformation than it is to see an  internet peer.  That's because, even though the exact same thing happened in both cases, the fact that I'm his child makes it that much worse.  The fact that I'd never been on this website until far AFTER he posted that crap makes it that much worse (I didn't show up until after his initial comment comments about me were here).  The fact that some schmuck is sanctioning him even though they know he's lying is a tinge pathetic, but.......
 
Usually, when people are in a forum like this--or in most places--they generally feel it is a given that everyone is being honest.  It is a shock and a bit of a let down when they're not.  Lying is disrespectful to everyone to whom a lie is directed.  What's more, even if the original concept was absolutely brilliant, it can't possibly remain so grand if the displayed sideline "facts" were incorrect.
 
What if Kinsey had made up his statistics?
Would you not be as interested in his work?
 
What is Archemedes never sat in the bathtub and water splashed out?
Would the "eureka" thing & water displacement have been credible?
 
What if you come to find that your favorite book was entire stolen thoughts or your favorite piece of art was a fake?
Wouldn't you be bummed?
 
You still hold the concept of what was (or what is) in high regard in your mind, but you know that it is only a facade and that someone wasn't real with you.  Someone didn't respect you enough to be real with you.
 
Pete said it best (and more concisely) before.  Amen Pete.

(Edited by Halina Brooke Reed on 11/02, 8:14am)


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Post 52

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 8:19amSanction this postReply
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Halina,

Under no circumstances whatsoever are my comments here or anywhere else intended to be an implied criticism of you. Ever.

Stand up and be counted, girl.

You have my admiration.

Michael



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Post 53

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 9:32amSanction this postReply
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I recently started posting on this forum, but after witnessing this farce, I don't know if I will anymore.

This clearly isn't the behavior of RATIONAL individualists. As Phil Coates aptly said, it's the behavior of guests on the Jerry Springer show.

I was flabbergasted when Adam Reed posted on Andy Postema, and I was more flabbergasted when Postema retaliated in-kind (pedophilia is grotesque, but so is publicly insinuating that a man is a pedophile without conclusive evidence. Postema's evidence was speculative. He should have written Reed privately if he were honestly concerned, especially after Reed's previous post backfired shamefully).

As if that weren't enough, Reed and his daughter then start airing their family's dirty laundry in public? Pardon me, I feel nauseated.

I like the idea of an open-minded Objectivist forum where people feel free to laugh and argue. But I'll take a stiff "Randroid" discussion anyday over this disgraceful display. It's truly a mockery of Ayn Rand's philosophy.


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Post 54

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
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I was flabbergasted when Adam Reed posted on Andy Postema, and I was more flabbergasted when Postema retaliated in-kind
[sarcasm]Gee, that "eye for an eye" stuff works so well everywhere else, I wonder why it didn't work here.[/sarcasm]

Sarah

P.S. I don't care about hijacking this thread because it is, as Jon T puts it, nauseating.

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Post 55

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 11:56amSanction this postReply
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Halina, you raised two issues in this thread: privacy and truthfulness.

On the issue of privacy, I thank you for teaching me, that in grounding some of my arguments on SOLO, I made the mistake of disclosing information that you prefer to keep private. I have apologized for this mistake, and it won't happen again.

As for your mother, in view of her behavior I do not owe her the same curtesy. However, except where her disagreements with me are used to impugn my character, I will respect her privacy as a curtesy to you.

On the other issue, it is not in my character to lie.

It is not a lie to draw, from available information, an honest inference that later turns out to have been false. In the one case concerning you, it happened because I was being denied any direct communication with you - so that I could not verify my interpretation of what was published in the newspaper. I later learned that I did in fact misinterpret what I had read. It is also a fact that it was an honest misinterpretation, which I corrected when I found out that what I had posted was false. Puffing it up into a "lie" ought to be beneath you.

As for the rest, those are interpretations of a past about which your mother and I disagree. The least that you should expect of yourself is not to accuse either one of us of lying when our interpretations disagree - at least until you have examined all the evidence, and found, in independent evidence, a solid grounding for one interpretation or the other.

All I can promise now, is that I won't let it happen again if I can prevent it - and that I expect the same of you.


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Post 56

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 12:57pmSanction this postReply
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Jon:  I haven't "aired dirty laundry" at all.  whatsoever.  in any way.  I know you're new here, so I'm sure you haven't dug through the archives of this site.  There have been literally over 20 posts in which slanderous statements written by my father have been displayed.  I haven't put anything on this website that wasn't already there.  It is quite a postion to be in, let me assure you.  I wouldn't have put any of it up there if I hadn't already made numerous requests (IN WRITING) for him to correct and/or remove and then to refrain from these types of posts.  Is it not my prerogative to take action if my requests are blatantly ignored?
 
I only wish you'd learn the root of this before accusing me of doing anything.  My privacy is of utmost importance and I only wish it hadn't been violated.  numerous times.  against my stated wishes.
 
Thank you for taking the time to understand the truth.
________________________________________
 
Dad:  Where should I begin?  First, privacy----NONE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS TRUE.  How could I ask you to keep something private that doesn't exist?  Its like asking someone to drive to Hawaii.  Can't happen.
 
It is not in your character to lie?  ROFLMAO (does that still work, or is it now gauche internet lingo?).  It isn't my burden of proof.  No one would say those horrible things about anyone--true or not.  Your ex-wife never did anything you accused her of...and if she even were slightly the woman you claimed (which, once again, she isn't), then it just shows how small you are to be talking about her.  I haven't seen anyone else on this site say ANYTHING mean about anyone not also on this site (except perhaps celebrities or politicians, if that?).
 
PS:  Do you have three accounts on Solo or something?  Someone really should check into that.  Who is sanctioning you and your lies?  It is quite funny actually.
 
Don't you dare make a moral judgement on me ever ever again.  Especially one that is steeped in mistruth.  I'm serious.  I can come back with ten times more--and, unlike you, I have proof of mine.


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Post 57

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 1:19pmSanction this postReply
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Look, Adam said he would remove any offensive posts that were up about his daughter.  I assume he has already either done that or is working on it.  I don't know who is right or who is wrong here and I do not care, but this open forum on SOLO is not the place for this family feud that has obviously been simmering for years.  Adam, I hope that you will remove whatever is offending Halina and continue the family problems in private with her.  Regardless of where the truth lies, if the two of you are to work this out, or to give up and sever ties, it needs to be done privately.  The last time I checked, SOLO was not being billed as a family counseling service.

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Post 58

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 2:15pmSanction this postReply
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Halina, you're right. I don't know the history between you and your dad. And I really don't want to know it. Obviously, you two don't value each other much (which may indeed be entirely his fault). What I will ask is that you and he continue this family feud somewhere else. Perhaps the "Judge Judy" show.


Post 59

Wednesday, November 2, 2005 - 3:29pmSanction this postReply
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Jody,

I intend to remove private information in any URL Halina asks me to. So far, I have not received a list of URLs to be edited or removed.

And no, I don't have multiple logins, except for administrative accounts on machines that I'm responsible for, on any machine or service, anywhere. This is something that could be readily verified, in the case of a public forum such as SOLO, from log files available to the server administrator. In any case, the idea that I would expend any effort for the sake of public approval is repulsive to me.


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