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Post 60

Thursday, August 17, 2006 - 10:11amSanction this postReply
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Jews have also lived in Iran for many years. Iran has the largest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel.

Iran also still has a significant populaton of Zoroastrians.




Post 61

Friday, August 18, 2006 - 11:27amSanction this postReply
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http://www.antiwar.com/ips/suri.php?articleid=9558

Here's another interesting take on the alleged plot. This writer is considering the possiblity that the Pakistani general have made the whole thing up to gain favor with Bush and Blair.

I certainly don't think Pakistan is worthy of our trust in this episode.




Post 62

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 1:50amSanction this postReply
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Hello Again

I had to lie down and bleed a little. 

I've been taking your advice Chris. I hope that I have calmed myself down.  :?)  My advice to you is to start thinking of strategies to make things better.  Railing about injustice is a dead end. It must be time for you to become an activist.<<<>>> 

That piece by Sacha Trudeau was quite interesting Sam.  Castro the Patriarch, puts things into a different context doesn't it?  Having grown up in the home of a patriarch, I can imagine that the Cuban people must be champing at the bit to experience some freedom.  As to Trudeau's suggestion of  anti-US, Cuban bias, do you think it doesn't exist? I've never been to Cuba, myself, or spoken to Cubans, personally. Castro, certainly, is  no friend of the US.  I have to admit that I don't read the Star.  Most of my news comes from various public radio stations and from online sources.  I forgot to mention www.truthout.com   I usually check it every day to see how it compares to NPR. 

Thanks to your suggestion Sam, I'm also checking out the Drudge Report.  What a lot of banal stuff it carries, along with world affairs. I've read some of the authors on Truth Out.  By the way Sam, which news has no bias?  I'm rather dismayed that you would think that I restrict my reading to Canadian sources, only.  Do you read  American publications exclusively? We never watch TV.

I'll get back to you on your other questions about children.  This link will introduce an approach to education that is responsive to Objectivist principles.  http://www.highscope.org/About/allabout.htm  I'd be interested in what you think about it.  <<<<>>>

I regret yelling at you, Kurt, I'll try and speak with more magnanimity. Please accept my apology. 

You challenged me on my accusations about global corporatism.  Well, I have noticed how US foreign policy follows US corporations as they are established in different countries around the world.  Am I seeing things?  Also, I've read a lot recently from critics of the Iraqi invasion, lamenting the corporate featherbedding; and the huge uncontrollable cost over-runs. Is there no truth to these charges? It appears to me that the new colonialists are the corporations. Maybe I should call them imperialists. They'd love to be above the law.<<<< >>>

Hi John,
Sorry to expose that tribalism in your closet.  lol     It seems that Objectivists forget that the brutality, of today's Muslim traditions, is very like what went on in Europe and North America a few centuries ago. Already, 21st century Muslims have modulated some of their earlier punishments.  My family has recollections of ancestors who were persecution as Huegenots; and the Scottish clearances were no fun either. Did you ever hear of the massacre of Glencoe?  My husband's family had to face that. 

I almost forgot to mention the Salem witch trials.  I see many Muslims as developmentally delayed in scientific and social knowledge.  Their young ones need some education, some good role models, and a few decades. Unless we enlightened ones take them under our wing and bring them along, or they turn out to be quicker studies than our ancestors; Muslims can't be expected to uplift themselves, so very much faster than our ancestors did. I'd say that first, is to teach them about the benevolent view of nature.  <<<>>>

Hong,
Marginalizing the Arabs, as if they didn't exist has not been an effective strategy for the Jews.  I don't support their colonization without consultation; and I don't support statism based on supernatural beliefs.  It's of no consequence to me,  how many letters they have behind their names.  Race or religion does not have its privilege.  The Jewish settlers who do not want to acknowledge the First Nations People. This arrogance is at root cause.  The Arabs are reactionaries to this arrogance.  The same arrogance that exudes from the White House. <<<<>>>

To All,

 I found a speech that one of your senators, Chuck Hagel, delivered at the end of July. It illustrates the place of  world opinion on US foreign policy.  Perhaps Hagel has no credibility with you; but he spoke good sense to me.  If you don't want to read all 37 pages, the question and answer section begins at page 19. Here's the link  www.brookings.edu/comm/events/20060728.pdf

If you don't agree with Hagel, then arm up your children and start the Islamic genocide. If ethnic cleansing is on your mind, you might want to think about diversity in nature; and whether or not it serves any purpose in regards to humankind as a species. Are Arabs and Muslims the modern Neanderthals to you?

Sharon



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Post 63

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 9:39amSanction this postReply
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Sharon:

You've admitted that you have restricted all your news sources to publicly supported or leftist media. And no comment on the Al-Jazeera broadcasts in Canada while restricting Fox news. The CRTC is essentially a censoring  agency.
By the way Sam, which news has no bias?  I'm rather dismayed that you would think that I restrict my reading to Canadian sources, only. 
You have sequestered yourself so that you are in a cuddly little corner where you don't have to compare views, only absorb.
 Do you read  American publications exclusively?
I've told you that I access the Canadian newspapers on the net. How the **** do you think I knew about the Al-Jazeera/Fox issue? (and you didn't)
Castro the Patriarch,...
Castro the Patriarch? How did you come up with this benign description of a Communist despot?
 I can imagine that the Cuban people must be champing at the bit to experience some freedom.
Like risking their lives in every sort of leaky vessel that will float, in shark infested waters, to reach freedom? What sort of blinders do you have? Your understatement disgusts me.
I've never been to Cuba, myself, ...
Well, I have. I was there in September, 1959, one year out of my civil engineering degree. I quit my job, bought a VW and a buddy and I set out from Vancouver and spent 6 weeks touring the US. When we got to Key West we saw ads for 3 days and 2 nights in Havana with a round trip air fare for $20. We were unbelievably politically immature and wondered why the flight was almost empty. Of course Castro had just taken over but wasn't overtly Communist at that point. There were rebels with machine guns everywhere. We were met on the tarmac by a sleazy guy giving out cards that said, "See Benny for all your entertainment needs." In our ignorance we had a great time and the only incident was that of taking a picture of the "Julio 26" headquarters where we were challenged by guys with submachine guns but we convinced them we were only stupid tourists, which we were.

Sharon — I'm not interested in continuing a dialogue with you and, IMO, you have no business pretending to have even some remote understanding of Objectivism.

Sam




Post 64

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:06amSanction this postReply
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Sam

You didn't mention what you thought of the High/Scope approach.

Sharon



Post 65

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 12:50pmSanction this postReply
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Sharon:

Is there any part of your life that doesn't rely on fleecing taxpayers? The description of the approach of High/Scope is just baffle-gab that could come from any educational institution.

High/Scope Educational Research Foundation is an independent nonprofit research, development, training, and public advocacy organization with headquarters in Ypsilanti, Michigan. High/Scope's mission is to lift lives through education. We envision a world in which all educational settings use active participatory learning so everyone has a chance to succeed in life and contribute to society.
Grants from foundations and corporations and contracts with local, state, and federal governmental agencies are the primary sources of support for High/Scope programs and projects
End of conversation

Sam




Post 66

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 1:44pmSanction this postReply
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Sam.

Economic and political life in North America is still less than perfect. 

I've paid my taxes, and I'll not be shamed into feeling like a looter.  The tax-payers get better than excellent value from the High/Scope Foundation; from the teachers that study the protocols and from the learners that are privileged to attend classrooms that use the approach.

Properly educated young people are an asset to their communities. It's unfortunate that Objectivists haven't been able to infiltrate the school system and change the way people think about laissez-faire capitalism.

One can only hope, and work with today's children.

Please read on. You might become inspired.

Sharon



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Post 67

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 2:25pmSanction this postReply
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Sharon MacDonald,

As far as I've ever been able to tell from your rambling you are thoroughly liberal and collectivist.

You don't pick your "philosophy" the same way as you pick your favorite baseball team, i.e., you like the color of the uniform or you like the "sound" of the name.

"I'll not be shamed into feeling like a looter"...

You may not feel shame but if you advocate forcing people to pay for programs they do not agree with and against their will you ARE a looter. Simply a shameless one.

Quick quiz:

When you hear the phrase "We're from the Government and we're here to help", do you say to yourself:

1. "Run for the hills!"
2. "Gee, what nice people."




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Post 68

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 3:24pmSanction this postReply
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Hello Mike

How inconvenient that the front guard of Objectivism hasn't yet managed regime change. 

I was already a teacher when I discovered Objectivism.  Yes, I earned my living from a democratic socialist institution.

I was not a political activist; I was mothering  a child and wifing a husband while teaching a class of children, whose parents were  financially incapable of paying for private education; and not inclined to disturb the status quo.  They knew nothing of Objectivism. Should I have been sabotaging the educational system? I thought that providing excellent service was sufficient.

Early in my career I was considered a radical teacher, who instilled independence, freedom, responsibility and pride in one's work, in the children under my care and tutelage.   By the time I retired, I was almost out of work because the children were so independent and self-sufficient.  Whenever three gather together, it's a collection.  I didn't build the system, Mike, I used it; the same as I use the roads that were built by money the government looted from taxpayers who didn't know any better.

Until Objectivism becomes de rigueur, schooling  for most children will be socialist and collectivist. I'm unable to throw children out with the bath water. Now, I am trying to show Objectivists how teaching as a subversive activity can help create the world we all want.

I spent my working life doing something for Objectivism.  I still am.  One does what one can.  I regret that I'm unable to meet your expectations Mike.  If only I'd known that I'd have to stand up here and be judged by you.  I might have gone to work in a factory, and earned honest wages. 

Please do your best to forgive me.

Sharon





Post 69

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 3:25pmSanction this postReply
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“Is there any part of your life that doesn't rely on fleecing taxpayers?”

What about Hong and Luke? What about the thousands of contractors whose primary or substantial business is work they do for NASA?




Post 70

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 4:33pmSanction this postReply
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Sharon,

I simply do not believe you. You do not speak with the straightforwardness and factualness that I find believable. Your "please forgive me" seems especially dishonest. I stopped talking to you months ago for these reasons.

There you are. I don't believe we need to have any further exchanges. Please consider this improbable exchange a fluke due to the fact that I read Sam's posts when I find them.



Post 71

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 7:03pmSanction this postReply
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Mike,

Your sensitivity catches me unawares.  

I was being sarcastic by claiming to apologize; so you were correct in seeing through my "dishonesty".  I'm disappointed that  you didn't catch my small attempt at humour. You came in here with an accusatory tone, and I replied in kind.

In Post #68 I didn't advocate the payment of unwanted tax burdens; I was describing how I had been making the best of a less than perfect situation.   By advocating  teaching as a subversive activity; as a means of promoting Objectivism, I thought I was being very pro-active; but you chose to ignore that, and to focus instead, on something you considered to be negative.

Sharon




Post 72

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 8:25pmSanction this postReply
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Sharon wrote to Hong:

Marginalizing the Arabs, as if they didn't exist has not been an effective strategy for the Jews. 
Sharon, are you at all familiar with the history of Muslim law, particularly the "marginalization" of Jews and Christians through "dhimma?"   It was started by your pal, Mohammed, who outlined the choices for the people he conqured:

1) Submit and convert to Islam.

2) Get your head cut off.

3) Pay the price, forever and ever, of getting conqured through special taxation reserved just for dhimmis.

Don't let the protests on Wiki encourage you.  Dhimma attitudes are widely accepted, even to this day, by a huge portion of the Muslim population. Pick up a copy of the Qur'an and read a bit of it. It's rife with marginalizing language against non-Muslims.




Post 73

Saturday, August 19, 2006 - 11:02pmSanction this postReply
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Teresa,

You and I are in agreement completely.  I am trying to take a mediation role here.

As things stand now, the only peace I see; is for the Jews to forget about their "promised land"and assimilate themselves with everyone else; or for them and their allies to begin an ethnic cleansing of every single Muslim fundamentalist on the face of the earth.

Chuck Habel is presenting a third way.  Are you in agreement with him?

It's an embarassment to me, to think that the most intellectually and technologically advanced people in history can turn so easily to violence to settle diagreements. I consider it to be a disgrace that maintaining one's arrogance is the most important thing. As a teacher, I'm ashamed that teachers around the world have not placed conflict resolution at the foundation of the hierarchy of knowledge..

As distasteful as it may sound to you, humility is required. Both sides must acknowledge the power of the other to be the final solution.  After that, talking can begin.  Talking that will last for years. Fierce conversations. In the meantime, individuals of goodwill in the rest of the enlightened world can begin the process of welcoming already modernized Muslims into our social groups. Eventually Jews and Christians will see the harm in maintaining a belief in a supernatural omnipotent being.  It must begin with atheists, who see the light;  and it's shining in the eyes of a newborn baby.

Did you see Michael Kelly and Bill Dwyer on the Barbara Branden thread extend their hands in peace?

Be brave and stay calm, we have seen the sign.

Thanks for wandering over here Teresa. You've managed to change the tone on this thread from one of destruction to one of hope.

I'm done
Sharon



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Post 74

Sunday, August 20, 2006 - 6:12pmSanction this postReply
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Marginalizing the Arabs,
Marginalized Arabs??? What about "marginalize" certain people who want to wipe you out of the face of the earth?

Frankly I've been trying to suppress a rage roused by Sharon's comments about Israel, Jews and Arabs. If it is not so ridiculous, it would be extremely vicious, to the Jews. I also realize that arguing with Sharon is usually useless. I am done too.




Post 75

Monday, August 21, 2006 - 7:29amSanction this postReply
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 It seems as though some of these suspects are now going to be charged with conspiracy to commit murder. That's quite a few steps down.

(Edited by Chris Baker on 8/21, 10:19am)




Post 76

Monday, August 21, 2006 - 7:58amSanction this postReply
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Finally, an airline is trying to do in response to all this non-sense. GO RYANAIR.

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/transport/article1220173.ece




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Post 77

Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 4:12pmSanction this postReply
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/6175427.stm

Yet another suspect has been freed in response to the so-called terror plot. Rashid Rauf is still facing charges of forgery. There never was a terrorist plot, as I believed four months ago.




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