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Post 20

Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 5:36pmSanction this postReply
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Bill, I read with interest your comments and criticism about Peter Duesberg. Could you post your published letter that critcized Duesberg's ideas here? I'd like to read it.
Sure. Here it is, from the February 1994 issue of Full Context:
Dear Karen:

In your most recent issue, you announce a forthcoming interview with Dr. Peter Duesberg to appear in the February 1993 issue of Penthouse Magazine. [Since rescheduled for the April issue. Editor] Evidently, you still regard him as an innovative genius fighting an entrenched, dogmatic establishment. I disagree. After reading your February 1992 interview with him, I was unimpressed by the quality of his answers to your questions. Despite his credentials as a scientist, his statements are in many cases inaccurate.

To begin with, he says that AIDS researchers have defined AIDS "as one of twenty-five known diseases provided they occur in the presence of HIV." If the researchers do define AIDS this way (and I would be surprised if they did), then they are obviously mistaken, because such a definition is couched in terms of non-essentials.

It is true that AIDS patients with HIV invariably have one of the 25 known (AIDS-related) diseases, but what is crucial to an understanding of AIDS is why they have such a disease. They have it because their immune system is depressed -- because they are immunodeficient. AIDS is an Acquired Immuno-Deficiency Syndrome in which there is a marked decline in the T-helper/suppressor lymphocyte ratio.

If, to use one of Duesberg's examples, a person were to have tuberculosis along with HIV, with no immunosuppression -- no marked decline in the T-helper/suppressor lymphocyte ratio -- it would be absurd to conclude that he was suffering from an acquired immunodeficiency syndrome -- since he would not have an immune deficiency! He would simply have tuberculosis in the presence of HIV. It is true, of course, that someone with HIV and tuberculosis is almost certain to be immunosuppressed as well. But to define AIDS as an HIV infection in the presence of certain diseases while ignoring the fact that it is an immune deficiency that makes one vulnerable to these diseases is like defining scurvy as bleeding gums in the presence of loose teeth while ignoring the fact that it is an ascorbic acid deficiency that makes one vulnerable to these symptoms. Again, I would be surprised if AIDS researchers defined AIDS in the way that Duesberg says they do. If they do, then they are, of course, mistaken, but their mistake in no way alters the fact that what is essential to their understanding of AIDS is that it is an acquired immunodeficiency syndrome.

Duesberg also argues that AIDS is "defined by the hypothetical cause of it [HIV]. But that kind of definition ignores strong evidence against the HIV, namely we have the same diseases in the same risk groups without HIV." (P.4).

Although conventional wisdom implicates HIV as causative of AIDS, AIDS cannot be defined by any one particular cause -- any more than cancer can be defined by any one particular cause. AIDS is an Acquired Immuno-Deficiency Syndrome, irrespective of its cause -- just as cancer is defined as a certain kind of disease irrespective of its cause. Furthermore, the fact that you can have the same disease without HIV does not mean that HIV does not cause AIDS, any more than cancer from causes other than cigarette smoking means that cigarette smoking does not cause cancer. That you can have more than one cause of AIDS does not mean that HIV is not one of its causes.

Also, in discussing Kimberly Bergalis, Duesberg says: "Now remember how AIDS is defined, a known disease found in the presence of HIV." He then says that, for her, the "known disease" was a yeast infection "like probably many other women in the world" have. This is errant sophistry, and is really disgraceful coming from a professional scientist. It is true that many women have vaginal yeast infections, and if this is what Kimberly Bergalis had in the absence of any immune deficiency -- in the absence of any marked decline in her T-helper/suppressor lymphocyte ratio -- then even if she were HIV positive, she would not have been diagnosed as having AIDS. What is crucial for an AIDS-related illness is why the person has the disease. Whether or not the disease is due to an immune deficiency makes all the difference in the world.

Duesberg tries to explain away the few cases that you mention of AIDS being acquired from sources other than recreational drug use by saying that AZT was the cause of AIDS-related death in such cases. Well, AZT is quite a new drug. What was killing the transfusion victims before AZT? They were all dying then too -- as if Duesberg didn't know!! All the people who acquired HIV and AIDS from blood transfusions, both hemophiliacs and non-hemophiliacs alike died. And we're not just talking about a few anecdotal cases.

Duesberg accuses the medical establishment of drawing unscientific conclusions about HIV being the cause of AIDS. But where is his scientific evidence that AZT is the culprit? Such speculation as he engages in is scarcely responsible science, especially when people who are HIV positive (e.g., Magic Johnson) have been influenced by his statements and have stopped taking their medication.

He also says that long-term consumption of recreational drugs causes AIDS? Again, how does this causal explanation fulfill his much ballyhooed scientific criteria? Do all long-term recreational drug users get AIDS? No they do not. For example, people have used cocaine for years and not gotten AIDS. Even if a certain class of drugs has been associated with the disease, the association is far looser than the association of HIV with AIDS which Duesberg regards as causally inconclusive.

If Duesberg wants us to buy into what he is saying, then let him provide the evidence for it. If a man says that the dinosaur is no longer extinct, then it is not up to the scientific establishment to waste their time refuting his claim; it is up to him to support such a claim. Duesberg paints himself as a persecuted innovator fighting against an entrenched, dogmatic establishment, when it is he who is evading the relevant facts. He will certainly not garner much support from the scientific community if he continues to make speculative, irresponsible claims while simultaneously misrepresenting such evidence as does exist.

Sincerely,

William Dwyer


Post 21

Thursday, March 27, 2008 - 10:01pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

I notice that you're not signed-up for the RoR Science Forum. The reason that I make note of this is because I just posted excerpts from articles by Duesberg there.

They pertain to the points in your letter. If you'd rather not sign-up for RoR Science (to see them), then just let me know, and I will re-post these excerpts here. I would like to have your response to the excerpts from these articles, published in 1998 and 2003.

Ed

Post 22

Friday, March 28, 2008 - 8:28amSanction this postReply
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Ed,

Why don't you repost them here for now, and I'll cross post my response to the Science Forum as well as here.

Thanks.

- Bill

Post 23

Friday, March 28, 2008 - 9:20amSanction this postReply
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Mark,

Regarding your Post 19 in which you defend Duesberg's drug hypothesis, the study in Nature refutes it. Quoting from the article:
Duesberg has stated that there are no controlled studies of drug use and AIDS, and that previous studies "failed to match the HIV-free control group with the HIV positives for the extent and duration of drug consumption". We performed our study in part to respond to this criticism. We examined the cohort at 6-monthly intervals for 96 months, and obtained drug-use data and determined HIV serostatus at each examination. Data for the variables we considered were available from 1,027 study subjects.

We compared heavy drug use (weekly or more frequent use of the four recreational drugs mentioned above [marijuana, cocaine, amphetamines, and nitrite inhalants]) for the 24-month period before entry into the study among 215 heterosexual and 812 homosexual/bisexual cohort members. Except for amyl nitrite, with 18% heavy use in homosexuals versus no heavy use among heterosexuals, the percentage of subjects reporting heavy use of each drug was similar in both sexual preference groups: 36 versus 39% for marijuana; 7 versus 4% for cocaine; and 1 versus 5% for amphetamines, respectively. During the 96 months of follow-up, 215 cases of AIDS occurred among the homosexual/bisexual men (cumulative incidence, 26%) compared with none among the heterosexuals. If heavy use of marijuana, cocaine or amphetamines is causally associated with AIDS, a cumulative incidence of 56 (0.26 x 215) cases among the heterosexual subjects would be expected.

Survey results

. . . Of the 215 heterosexual men, none was HIV seropositive on entry and one seroconverted during the follow-up period. Among these men, no cases of AIDS and one death (0.5%) were recorded. Among the 812 homosexual/bisexual study subjects, 367 were HIV seronegative on entry and have remained so for 96 months. No cases of AIDS and seven deaths (2%) have been recorded among these men. Forty-five men seroconverted during the 96-month follow-up period. Among the seroconverters, eleven cases of AIDS (24%) and five deaths (11%) have been recorded. Among the 400 study subjects who were HIV seropositive on entry and throughout the followup period, 204 (51%) have developed AIDS and 169 (42%) have died.

Because Duesberg has specifically implicated amyl nitrite in the aetiology of Kaposi's sarcoma, we performed additional analyses to assess this relationship. . . . [A]mong the 144 homosexual/bisexual men who reported heavy use of amyl nitrite inhalants during the 24 months before study entry, 54 developed AIDS during the ensuing 96 months (cumulative incidence, 37.5%). Among the 668 homosexual/bisexual men reporting none or less than weekly use of amyl nitrite inhalants during the same time period, 161 developed AIDS in 96 months (cumulative incidence, 24%) for a relative risk of 1.56. This crude association is apparently the basis for Duesberg's hypothesis. Further analysis of the data reveals a similar association between drug use and HIV positivity, and when controlled for HIV serostatus, there is no overall effect of drug use on AIDS. A similar effect, a marginal association that drops after controlling for HIV serostatus is seen in cases which end in Kaposi's sarcoma. Thus, when proper methods are used to assess the role of confounding variables, there is no evidence of a drug effect. In addition, we have performed a logistic analysis of the longitudinal drug-use data which shows no positive association between long-term or continued drug use and the development of AIDS. (Nature, Vol. 362, 11 March 1993, pp. 103-104)


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Post 24

Friday, March 28, 2008 - 7:12pmSanction this postReply
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Here’s a summary, Bill.


HISTORY

(1) In 1981 a new epidemic of about two-dozen heterogeneous diseases began to strike non-randomly growing numbers of male homosexuals and mostly male intravenous drug users in the US and Europe.

(2) Assuming immunodeficiency as the common denominator the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) termed the epidemic, AIDS, for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome.

(3) From 1981-1984 leading researchers including those from the CDC proposed that recreational drug use was the cause of AIDS, because of exact correlations and of drug-specific diseases.

(4) However, in 1984 US government researchers proposed that a virus, now termed human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), is the cause of the non-random epidemics of the US and Europe but also of a new, sexually random epidemic in Africa.

(5)The virus-AIDS hypothesis was instantly accepted

(6) Almost two decades of unprecedented efforts in research costing US taxpayers over $50 billion have failed to defeat Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS) and have failed to explain the chronology and epidemiology of AIDS in America and Europe.

(7) The failure to cure AIDS is so complete that the largest American AIDS foundation is even exploiting it for fundraising: 'Latest AIDS statistics-0,000,000 cured. Support a cure, support AMFAR.'

(8) The scientific basis of all these unsuccessful efforts has been the hypothesis that AIDS is caused by a sexually transmitted virus, termed Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), and that this viral immunodeficiency manifests in 30 previously known microbial and non-microbial AIDS diseases.


RESULTS & DISCUSSION

(1) AIDS is not contagious. For example, not even one health care worker has contracted AIDS from over 800,000 AIDS patients in America and Europe.

Q: Why is AIDS not contagious?
A:


(2) AIDS is highly non-random with regard to sex (86% male); sexual persuasion (over 60% homosexual); and age (85% are 25-49 years old).

(3) The epidemic is fragmented into distinct subepidemics with exclusive AIDS-defining diseases. For example, only homosexual males have Kaposi's sarcoma.

Q: Why is AIDS in the US and Europe not random like other viral epidemics?
A:


(4) From its beginning in 1980, the AIDS epidemic progressed non-exponentially, just like lifestyle diseases.

Q: Why did AIDS not rise and then decline exponentially owing to antiviral immunity like all other viral epidemics? Why is AIDS not self-limiting via antiviral immunity?
A:


(5) Patients do not have any one of 30 AIDS-defining diseases, nor even immuno-deficiency, in common. For example, Kaposi's sarcoma, dementia, and weight loss may occur without immunodeficiency. Thus, there is no AIDS-specific disease.

Q: Why is there no vaccine against AIDS? Why would HIV take 10 years from infection to AIDS?
A:


(6) Lifetime prescriptions of inevitably toxic anti-HIV drugs, such as the DNA chain-terminator AZT, are another common denominator of AIDS patients.

Q: Why is the mortality of HIV-antibody-positives treated with anti-HIV drugs 7-9%, but that of all (mostly untreated) HIV-positives globally is only 1.4%?
A:


(7) AIDS patients have antibody against HIV in common only by definition-not by natural coincidence. AIDS-defining diseases of HIV-free patients are called by their old names.

Q: Why is there no HIV in most AIDS patients, only antibodies against it?
A:


(8) Recreational drug use is a common denominator for over 95% of all American and European AIDS patients, including male homosexuals.

(9) HIV proves to be an ideal surrogate marker for recreational and anti-HIV drug use. Since the virus is very rare (< 0.3%) in the US/European population and very hard to transmit sexually, only those who inject street drugs or have over 1,000 typically drug-mediated sexual contacts are likely to become positive.

(10) The huge AIDS literature cannot offer even one statistically significant group of drug-free AIDS patients from America and Europe.

Q: Why would only HIV carriers get AIDS who use either recreational or anti-HIV drugs or are subject to malnutrition?
A:


Ed
(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/28, 7:16pm)


Post 25

Friday, March 28, 2008 - 8:45pmSanction this postReply
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Bill, thanks for posting your letter about Duesberg's ideas, and the summary of the study about the effects of drug use published in Nature.

Taking first the hypothesis that abusive and prolonged drug use can cause permanent immunodeficiency, I don't know enough about the subject to suggest much, beyond my earlier statement that the idea seems plausible. It appears that the study defined AIDS as immune deficiency irrespective of HIV status. It also appears that the study found that HIV was exclusively associated with subsequent AIDS, while no subjects in this group who tested negative for HIV developed AIDS.  I have no background in science, so I can't reach firm conclusions about the study, which may represent accurate findings.

But alternative possibilities do exist. There is the important issue of whether or not the study was constructed properly so that its results faithfully portray the real world. Did the study incorporate drug use that was heavy and prolonged enough among most of its subjects to produce AIDS? Did the study unconsciously select healthier HIV negative men, as compared to less well HIV positives? I don't know. There is also the issue of apparent correlation (all cases of AIDS in this study preceded by HIV antibodies) being logically distinct from causation. Take, for example, the case of the presence of HIV anti bodies in subjects who subsequently developed AIDS. There is abundant evidence that HIV is an old virus, as opposed to the false hype about HIV spreading rapidly as a classic new-virus epidemic. Tests taken of US army recruits since 1985 show a constant (low) percentage of HIV positives of .4%--one in 250 people. Of course, this is inconsistent with a viral epidemic, which ascends along a parabolic curve until people develope immunity....or die.

Assuming the study published in Nature is well designed, what might account for its discrepancy between HIV negatives not developing AIDS, and HIV positives subsequently getting AIDS (other than the favored hypothesis that HIV causes AIDS)? One possibility might be that homosexual men who were more reckless in their pursuit of multiple partners and drugs--especially nitrite inhalents--were more likely to contract numerous blood borne infections, including HIV. Assuming HIV were a harmless virus, it could still serve as an approximate marker in many AIDS cases for this reason. In other words, homosexual men who had many sexual encounters with other men, and who correspondingly engaged in very heavy drug use, would be more likely to have anti-bodies to HIV, as well as numerous other viruses. Because there are numerous reports that correlate rampant sexual activity with heavier drug use, such HIV postive men might face higher risk of developing non-infectuous AIDS. I'm not claiming that this hypothesis is true, but it seems plausible. 

I don't presume to know with high confidence that drug use--including of AZT--is necessarily the cause of AIDS in Europe and America. However, I have read that there have been many cases of HIV negative men contracting Kaposi's scarcoma---men who were heavy users of amy nitrite inhalents. I've also read that AZT is terribly toxic. It was originally developed as an anti-cancer drug to kill cancer cells; however, the drug decimated not only cancer cells but the cellular components of the immune system--and all other growing cells--on a lethal scale. After its brief introduction in the Sixties, the FDA removed it from use for this reason. AZT was brought back into use after it was demonstrated to kill HIV in the test tube. Further tests reported that the drug could kill HIV at low levels of use, while the dose necessary to kill T cells was said to be 1,000 times greater.

However, as Duesberg explains in his book, this happy news was too good to be true. For HIV is a retrovirus that reproduces its DNA through the machinery of the cells it takes over. Therefore, to kill an HIV viron necessarily requires killing the host cell, including T cells. Smaller laboratories found that the dosage of AZT necessary to kill HIV was 1,000 times greater than represented in the Burrough Welcome study. AZT is extremely toxic, and kills HIV infected and uninfected T-cells alike. "To this date, the Physician Desk Reference quotes the low toxicity of AZT reported by Broder, Barry, and Bolonesci, and colleagues, in 1986, although the real toxicity of the drug is one thousand times higher according to more than six imdependent studies published since." (Duesberg page 313, Inventing the AIDS Virus). Duesberg points out two other problems with AZT as miracle drug. First, the experiment in the test tube featured rapidly growing HIV; AZT only kills growing cells. But in humans who develope AIDS who had been previously infected by HIV, the virus has been long neutralized by the immune system, a dormant virus that produces no copies of itself. (Blood tests for HIV detect anti-bodies to the virus, while more recent techniques that seek to directly identify virus particles use technology that detects  particles too tiny to be biologically active, according to the Nobel winner who discovered the technology.) So, AZT could kill growing cells in an artificial environment, but it couldn't kill the virus in subjects in whom it was inactive. Second, the virus kills indiscrimminately any growing cells. Since, according to Duesberg, only 1 in 500 T cells of HIV antibody positive people are ever infected, AZT must kill 499 good cells to destroy one infected cell.

Duesberg devotes a long chapter to AZT: its checkered history, the political intrigue that secured its approval, its well documented toxicity, its ability to interfer with DNA replication, and the disturbingly inconclusive (or misleading) "double blind" studies performed to secure FDA approval in record time. He describes the failure of the attempted double blind-placebo trials of the drug in detail, which featured the blind-defeating rapid sickening of those ingesting AZT, cheating by frightened placebo takers determined to take the toxin (which tasted different than the placebo), and enlarged red blood cells.   
                                                                                            **********************************************************

How would one explain the tragedy of Kimberly Bergalis dying of AIDS? She tested positive for HIV. But how could she have possibly contracted an infection of HIV from her HIV-positive homosexual dentist, Acer? He pulled two molars from 19 year old Kimberly in 1987; two years later, she develped an oral yeast infection. After a brief pneumonia sent her to the hospital following intense actuarial examinations, she tested postive for HIV. Up to this point, there was nothing unusual about her medical ailments, which many suffer. But the CDC got wind of the story and Kimberly's attitude about her condition immediately worsened wehn she learned she was positive for HIV. The connection from Kimberly to her dentist, according to the CDC, rested on the fact of an inactive virus shared by both individuals. Kimberly said she had never had sex--she was a virgin--and used no IV or recreational drugs. Her dentist, who pursued sex and drugs in the fast lane, even after his diagnosis of HIV anti-bodies and feelings of unwellness, died in 1990.  Meanwhile, Bergalis was prescribed AZT After this, her yeast infection worsened, and her health declined precipitously. By late 1993, her T cell count had dropped from 1,000 to 43. Her fevers hit 103. She looked like a chemotherapy patient. She died in 1991 at 23. As Duesberg points out, no one commented on the fact that the "incubation period" assumed for the HIV infection was supposed to be 10 years.

The CDC tested 1,100 of Acer's former dentistry patients, of whom 7 were HIV infected, including Kimberly, 2 with normal risk parameters for AIDS risks. Of the five with no risk factors, including Kimberly, inssurance companies demonstrated, based on their own investigations, that the HIV strain of the five was a different strain than Acer's! When the CDC expanded its study to include sixteen thousands patients of 32 HIV positive Dr.s and dentists, it turned up 84 HIV positives. 5 postivies out of 1,100 patients is 1 in 222, compared with 1 in 250 across the US population. 84 of 16,000 comes to 1 in 188. There is no evidence that Kimberly's mother was ever tested for HIV; most transmissions of the virus occur during childbearth. Kimberly may have carried this virus harmlessly from birth.

                                                                                              *************************************************************
The issue of how the state medical establishment defines AIDS, discussed in Bill's letter to Full Context, can be put to rest, easily and quickly. On page 212 of his book, Duesberg states:"One might ask how a doctor would distinguish between an AIDS-related tuberculosis and a traditional one. Clinically, the symptoms are identical, so the CDC has stipulated in its current definition that the tuberculosis must be renamed AIDS if anti-bodies against HIV are also found in the patient. In the absence of previous HIV infection, the disease is classified under its old name, in the case "tuberculosis", and treated accordingly.  AIDS, therefore, can never be found apart from HIV infection--entirely by definition!"

As of 1996, when Duesberg's book was published, there were 4,621 clinically diagnosed cases of AIDS that are all HIV-free. To cover this discrepancy with its perfect HIV-AIDS
correlation, HIV-free AIDS cases were renamed in 1992 as "ideopathicCD4-lymphocytopenia" by the CDC and Anthony Fauci, the head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.
                                                                                         **************************************************************
Duesberg's book is favored on its book jacket with positive commentary by several prominent scientists, including Kerry Mullis, who won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for his invention 0f the Polymerase Chain Reaction., Dr. Walter Gilbert, Nobel winner in chemistry 1980, and several others. Mullis states on the jacket:"We know hat to err is human, but the HIV/AIDS hypothesis is one hell of a mistake. I say this rather strongly as a warning. Duesberg has been saying it for a long time. Read this book."


Post 26

Friday, March 28, 2008 - 9:15pmSanction this postReply
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Ed, thank you for your excellent post that summarizes a great deal of valuable information.

Incidentally, when Duesberg published his book in 1996, HIV positives were contracting AIDS at the rate of about 4% annually. To postulate this inactive virus as causative, the latency period from inflection to immune deficiency would reach 20 years, if one assumed all HIV positives acquire AIDS eventually. Duesberg also summarizes findings from studies of hemophiliacs, in which the mortality rate is equal among positives and negatives.

The best most powerful section in his book explains that the HIV/AIDS hypothesis utterly fails each of Koch's 5 postulates, which are principles pertaining to the diagnosis and explanation of infections that are essentially the exercise of  logic applied to the subject of infectious disease. Robert Gallo, who together with French researcher Luc Montagnier, was central to promoting and getting credit for the "discovery" of HIV/AIDS, wrote in his 1991 book Virus Hunting--AIDS, Cancer, and the Human Retrovirus: A Story of Scientific Discovery:

" Rules were needed then (in Koch's time) and can be helpful now,  but not if they are too blindly followedRobert Koch, a great microbiologist, has suffered from a malady that affects many other great men: he has been taken too literally and too seriously for too long. ......Koch's postulates, while continuing to be an excellent teaching device, are far from absolute in the real world outside the classroom, (and probably should not be in the classroom anymore except in an historical and balanced manner.)  ......"


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Post 27

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 9:58amSanction this postReply
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Gentlemen,

The consensus on the etiology of AIDS, is that (non-intravenous) drug use can hasten its onset in the presence of HIV, but is not itself the main cause of AIDS. If that is Duesberg's position, then he is in perfect conformity with conventional wisdom. Of course, that is not his position at all. He doesn't recognize HIV as in any way causative of AIDS. He thinks that the disease is due to drugs. But the study in NATURE refuted that claim. Given the available evidence, it is folly to think that HIV has nothing to do with AIDS or that recreational drug use is sufficient to produce the marked decline in the T4-T8 lymphocyte ratio that HIV does. Now obviously intravenous drug use has been implicated in AIDS, but that's because of blood transference through the use of infected needles.

Many non-drug using hemophiliacs who received blood tainted with the HIV virus have contracted AIDS and died, and these included children. Back in 1993, a scandal emerged within the French government involving transfusions with tainted blood. I quote from an article entitled "Blood Money" in Health and Medicine (August 1, 1993):

"This is a horror story, and it’s far from over. It began in 1985 in France, a country often envied for its system of universal health care and tradition of medical excellence. [Tradition of medical excellence? I don't think so!] In one of the most shameful episodes of the AIDS epidemic, physicians and government officials there knowingly allowed at least a thousand people to receive blood or blood products contaminated by the virus that causes the disease. Three hundred of those people--mainly hemophiliacs, many of them children--are already dead. The rest are going to die, barring a miracle.

"They are, of course, not the only victims of transfusion-related AIDS. At the epidemic’s start in the early 1980s, before a viral cause was found and the blood supply could be protected, many hemophiliacs and people who received transfusions were likewise infected by contaminated blood. The tragedy, born out of ignorance, occurred in nearly every country in the world. But in France what began as ignorance turned into calculated connivance. Using tainted blood stocks became a matter of economic expediency and government-sanctioned policy.

"The callous handling of the affair is widely believed to have contributed to the rout of the ruling Socialist party in last March’s elections."


If, as Duesberg says, HIV does not cause AIDS, then why did these non-drug using hemophiliacs, many of them children, who contracted the HIV virus through blood transfusions, get AIDS and die? If HIV weren't recognized as the key factor in the development of AIDS, the blood supply would not have been protected, and many more people would have gotten AIDS and died by now. Duesberg's views are not simply wrong; they are pernicious and if they had been accepted by the medical establishment, would have markedly worsened the AIDS epidemic!

- Bill

(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/29, 10:01am)

(Edited by William Dwyer on 3/29, 10:15am)


Post 28

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:06pmSanction this postReply
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Bill, quite frankly, your moral evaluation of Duesberg isn't worth much in light of the fact that it stands on a single misconception: that HIV causes AIDS.

You speak of scientific "consensus" about HIV, but that's unimpressive in light of the fact that competition among ideas today is restricted to a large degree, and that philosophical confusion abounds. Contemporary consensus has an astonishingly dismal track record across a broad range of issues, from Keynesian "economics", to DOW 30,000 and real-estate-prices-that can-only-go-up, to anthropological global warming, to the "rationalism" of scientific socialism, to the "virtue" of environmentalism, and a lot more. Whenever I perceive consensus about some important issue, I get wary.

I previously addressed the claim that the study summary you posted from "Nature" proves anything. Clearly, while it may provide reassurance to the faithful, it doesn't prove that HIV causes--even as a so-called co-factor--AIDS.

The argument that HIV causes AIDS is emphatically nor based on the pathogenesis of an HIV infection; it is based only on epidemiology, the analysis of factor correlation within a large population. In other words, no one has ever explained how HIV could cause immune deficiency. "The strongest evidence that HIV causes AIDS comes from prospective epidemeological studies that document the absolute requirement for HIV infection for the developement of AIDS." (Robert Gallo, Blattner and Temin, retrovirologists and major defenders of the hypothesis.) But, since AIDS has been documented to appear in thousands of patients who test negative for HIV anti-bodies, this is patently false. Furthermore, the possibility of acquring this virus sexually for heterosexuals requires on average 250,000 sexual encounters (1 in 250 in the general population carrying anti-bodies to HIV, times 1,000 sexual encounters with HIV positive partner to contract the virus. I can document these estimates as reliable.) This is consistent with the observation that HIV is passed preternatally, through child birth. And so, many thousands of US army recruits who have tested positive for HIV anti-bodies, having contracted the virus at birth, are perfectly healthy. The CDC estimated that 17 million Americans, as of the mid-nineties, carry anti-bodies to HIV; but only a cumulative total of 1 million--6%-- had developed AIDS over the preceeding ten year period!

HIV is a retrovirus incapable of destroying cells, it is an old virus that has not increased infection rates during this so-called AIDS "epidemic", it is an infectious agent that the evidence increasingly reveals to be a harmless passenger virus. It is a virus that is not present in bio-chemically active form in AIDS sufferers, having been neutralized by the immune response that leaves only anti-bodies to the virus in its wake. And so, the correlation that state-establishment types try to build is not of HIV virus with AIDS; it is of anti-bodies to (inactive) HIV with AIDS. After failing repeatedly to sicken animals injected with pure HIV, virologists turned to lab cultures. Adding HIV to T cells in a culture, they observed that the virus killed no T cells! The impossibility of producing HIV-AIDS in animals, or even under artificially optimal conditions in the laboratory is clearly fatal to the hypothesis.

Hemophiliacs have a poor prognosis, because repeated blood transfusions are highly immuno-suppressive. Testing for HIV began in 1984; some 15,000 hemophiliacs--75% of the total--were infected with HIV through multiple transfusions. Twelve years later--1996, when Duesberg published his book--one would have expected well over one half of those who had previously been infected with HIV to have died. But, in fact, only 2% had died! "According to several dozen small studies, this matches the rate of immune deficiencies and death among HIV negativer hemophiliacs, a phenomenon apparently related to hemophilia itself." (Duesberg, page 182, Inventing the AIDS Virus).
 

(Edited by Mark Humphrey on 3/29, 1:13pm)


Post 29

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:31pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

Duesberg qualified his earlier hypothesis to include not just recreational and anti-HIV drug users, but the malnourished as well: "Why would only HIV carriers get AIDS who use either recreational or anti-HIV drugs or are subject to malnutrition?"

Were these French children who got HIV-infected -- and then got AIDS -- malnourished?

Ed

Post 30

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 1:55pmSanction this postReply
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Thank you William for introducing what I have always thought of as the defining piece of evidence linking AIDS to HIV, the non-gay, non-drug-using hemophiliacs, who were dying like flies shortly after HIV appeared in a substantial portion of the population, and until HIV was screened out of the blood supplies, at which point the problem effectively ceased.

As to the politicization of science and AIDS research, I called into a radio program in the early '90's to ask the guy who was allegedly the AIDS research specialist in the L.A. area if there was a link between AIDS and the increasing prevalence of drug resistant tuberculosis as well as other diseases. 

The expert clearly upset the DJ by his answer, which was that there was and is unequivacally a direct link between AIDS and drug-resistant infectious diseases.  The AIDS patients, almost by definition, have an impaired immune response, altho of course the degree of impairment varies from virtually nil to total collapse. 

Thus, when they do get any kind of infection, they require higher doses of the antibiotic or other drug.  For the same level of dose, it also takes longer for the infection to be cleared.  These two factors alone would accellerate the emergence of drug resistant infections.  There is the further factor that the antibiotics themselves typically produce some degree of temporary impairment of the immune system, which just multiplies the problem, more so for HIV positive patients. 

However, among the AIDS population there are a sizeable number of people who got AIDS to begin with through risky behavior and failure to act rationally, including many or most IV drug users as well as promiscuous gays as well as heterosexuals.  These people didn't very likely suddenly have an attack of rationality.  Often, when they do get an infection, they do not rigorously follow through with the full course of treatment, meaning relapses and more anti-biotics and that the surviving germs tend to be more resistent to the drugs than initially the case.

You can multipy this ten or a hundred fold in the 3rd world, where many HIV positive people have multiple infections and go through repeated inadequate treatment that simply generates all manner of more deadly germs.  And, at this time, it is widely recognized that HIV's secondary victims are all the rest of us who are faced with an army of deadly and less and less treatable infections.  In fact, these secondary infections are more often the thing that kills an HIV positive person.  Now, however, we have largely burned through our defense against infection due to treating HIV positive patients.

At the time of my call, however, this issue was not even being addressed because it was politically taboo, due to the AIDS lobby.  It is likely that if the medical research and public health communities had jumped on this right from the beginning, as they should have, given that the logic does not even require experimental proof (that having already been conducted over more that a century of epidemiology) then we would be ten years or so ahead of the disease control curve, compared to the disaster that we are moving towards now.

I note that in addition to the hemophiliacs there is another distinct group that should not be getting AIDS if HIV were not the cause, namely Hispanic wives.  Because of the machismo insanity that many or most Hispanic men accept to one degree or another, many Hispanic men feel that once they have achieved a position of importance in their lives, they have to prove it by taking a mistress. 

Short of that, to prove their manhood, they have sex with a prostitute at their local bar.  This alone is risky.  However, in the U.S., there are not very many Hispanic women prostitutes, because the job market for other occupations is so much better than back in the home country, so, some of the Maricons (gay men) have discovered a lucrative business in becoming transvestites and then selling wholesale sex in the bars.  This has become quite common, in fact.  When I drove a cab in Santa Ana in the barrios at night in the mid-'80's, I had some of these "ladies" as fairly regular customers, and they would often make passes at me while I was driving.  Gawd knows how many men they had sex with on a given night.

Note that taking the "male" role in sex with another man is not considered "gay" or "homosexual" in the Hispanic culture.  In fact, it is considered more "Macho" than having sex with a woman. 

Then they go home and have sex with their wives.  Often the men do not get AIDS, but the wife does and there is a rapidly growing population of such women.  If HIV were not the cause, one would still have to stipulate the existence of some other, yet undiscovered, infectious agent, in order to explain this phenomynon.


Post 31

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 2:44pmSanction this postReply
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The alleged advance of AIDS into the population of women is the result, not of HIV transmission between heterosexual partners, but to the inclusion by the AIDS bureaucracy of additional diseases under the AIDS umbrella, on a recurring basis. So, in the mid-nineties, the CDC included cervical cancer--cancer that is confined to women--as an AIDS marker. However, as I pointed out earlier, cervical cancer is only designated as AIDS if the patient tests positive for HIV. A negative for anti-bodies to HIV results in a diagnosis of "cervical cancer". The politically astute CDC and other bastions of AIDS orthodoxy continually assert undisclosed "new findings" that inspire them to include additional diseases under the AIDS umbrella. These alleged "new findings" never, ever---not a single time---have inspired the deletion of a disease from the AIDS group.

The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS by Michael Fumantano carefully and thoroughly refuted the notion that AIDS was a sexually transmitted disease epidemic, based strictly on his analysis of epidemiology.

Neither Bill nor Phil have addressed the problems with the HIV hypothesis that I described in my posts above. For example, the history of AIDS among hemophiliacs does not support the HIV/AIDS story. Far from it, since statistics gathered since 1984 prove that the mortality rate among HIV positives is essentially the same as among HIV negatives. The great improvement in longevity among hemophiliacs since the early eighties is due only to improvements in medical techonolgy and care available to hemophiliacs.

Phil states that AIDS is rapidly spreading into the population of Hispanic women, based on his assumptions about the risks of contracting HIV through sex. I'd like to see some documented reference to this assertion.

Where is the evidence that AIDS is infectious?

Where is the evidence that HIV causes infectious AIDS?


Post 32

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 3:47pmSanction this postReply
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The best evidence against the Duesberg Hypothesis (nih.gov’s 1995 white paper)

NOTE: The Wiki entry on Koch’s postulates is stricter than that used by Duesberg, as quoted in the National Institutes of Health publication.

=================
Robert Koch’s 4 Postulates (Wikipedia)
1. The microorganism must be found in abundance in all organisms suffering from the disease, but not in healthy organisms.
2. The microorganism must be isolated from a diseased organism and grown in pure culture.
3. The cultured microorganism should cause disease when introduced into a healthy organism.
4. The microorganism must be re-isolated from the inoculated, diseased experimental host and identified as being identical to the original specific causative agent.

Robert Koch’s 4 Postulates (Duesberg)
1. The microorganism must be found in all cases of the disease.
2. It must be isolated from the host and grown in pure culture.
3. It must reproduce the original disease when introduced into a susceptible host.
4. It must be found in the experimental host so infected.
=================


The best evidence against the Duesberg Hypothesis (nih.gov’s 1995 white paper), continued [scientific references have been removed in order to improve readability] …

=================
1) The development of DNA PCR has enabled researchers to document the presence of cell-associated proviral HIV in virtually all patients with AIDS, as well as in individuals in earlier stages of HIV disease. RNA PCR has been used to detect cell-free and/or cell-associated viral RNA in patients at all stages of HIV disease.

2) Improvements in co-culture techniques have allowed the isolation of HIV in virtually all AIDS patients, as well as in almost all seropositive individuals with both early- and late-stage disease.

All four postulates have been fulfilled in three laboratory workers with no other risk factors who have developed AIDS or severe immunosuppression after accidental exposure to concentrated HIVIIIB in the laboratory. All three have shown marked CD4+ T cell depletion, and two have CD4+ T cell counts that have dropped below 200/mm3 of blood. One of these latter individuals developed PCP, an AIDS indicator disease, 68 months after showing evidence of infection and did not receive antiretroviral drugs until 83 months after the infection. In all three cases, HIVIIIB was isolated from the infected individual, sequenced, and shown to be the original infecting strain of virus.

In addition, as of Dec. 31, 1994, CDC had received reports of 42 health care workers in the United States with documented, occupationally acquired HIV infection, of whom 17 have developed AIDS in the absence of other risk factors. These individuals all had evidence of HIV seroconversion following a discrete percutaneous or mucocutaneous exposure to blood, body fluids or other clinical laboratory specimens containing HIV.

The development of AIDS following known HIV seroconversion also has been repeatedly observed in pediatric and adult blood transfusion cases, in mother-to-child transmission, and in studies of hemophilia, injection drug use, and sexual transmission in which the time of seroconversion can be documented using serial blood samples.

In many such cases, infection is followed by an acute retroviral syndrome, which further strengthens the chronological association between HIV and AIDS.
===================

Reference:
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/publications/hivaids/hivaids.htm

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/29, 4:04pm)


Post 33

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:07pmSanction this postReply
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Interested parties,

It's really pretty easy to test Koch's postulates with reference to the government’s HIV-AIDS Hypothesis. Here's how to do this simple science which would settle this issue ...

(1) find HIV -- or its "abundance" -- in every AIDS patient (and maybe also make note of its absence in non-AIDS folks)

(2) isolate HIV from the blood of just one single AIDS patient

(3) introduce this person-isolated HIV virus into susceptible hosts (pigs, guinea pigs, rhesus macaques, government bureaucrats, etc)

(4) re-isolate the HIV virus from the newly-diseased hosts, and double-check to make sure it's the identical virus introduced

Done! That's real easy to do, and can be done without much funding (probably much less than $500,000).

Does anyone know if this simple research has been done yet?

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/29, 4:21pm)


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Post 34

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:24pmSanction this postReply
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The following is from Dr. Richard Hunt, University of South Carolina School of Medicine, Department of Microbiology and Immunology.

DOES HIV CAUSE AIDS?

Despite the overwhelming evidence that HIV is the causative agent of AIDS, there are still many things that we do not know about the virus. Some people say that all that is necessary for AIDS is an HIV infection. Others invoke co-factors. A small but influential minority say that HIV is an unjustly maligned by-stander that is found in many immunocompromised states but is not the cause of the disease. The most outspoken of these are Drs. Peter Duesberg and Kary Mullis.

The following are the arguments raised by those who believe that HIV does not cause AIDS:

i) HIV is not in semen. In fact, it is actually found to a high degree in most investigations.

ii) Viruses work exponentially to produce new virions and disease. This statement confuses virus in a cell, where this is true in many cases, with disease in individual. There are numerous examples of slow progressive viral diseases.

iii) Viruses do not cause disease when neutralizing antibody is present. This is not true. There are examples of diseases which progress in spite of the presence of antibody.

iv) Fewer than 1 in 10,000 T4 cells infected. We now know that the presence of HIV can cause uninfected cells to undergo apoptosis.

v) Few hemophiliacs get AIDS; instead, they die of immune suppression by therapeutic blood proteins. HIV positive hemophiliacs get immune suppression but HIV negative ones do not.

vi) Transfusion of HIV contaminated blood not been shown to give AIDS. In a Mexican study of 39 patients given HIV+ blood, AIDS occurred in 3% of the recipients within 12 months, 50% after 29 months, 75% after 36 months, 100% after 48 months. The mean survival time after AIDS onset was 9 months.

vii) HIV does not fulfill Koch's postulates.

Postulate 1: An infectious agent occurs in each case of a disease in sufficient amounts to cause pathology. It is said that there are many cases of AIDS without HIV.
It is to be expected that there would be other causes of immune suppression and so there would be AIDS-like diseases without HIV. Nevertheless, the overwhelming majority of AIDS-like immunosuppressive diseases occur in HIV-infected persons.

Postulate 2: A specific infectious agent is not found in other diseases. This was later abandoned by Koch when it was found that one agent can cause more than one specific disease.

Postulate 3: After isolation and culture, the infectious agent can induce the disease in another individual. The infectious agent can then be isolated from the newly infected host.

In the case of HIV which only causes disease in humans, this is difficult to do as there is, naturally, a lack of volunteers. However, this postulate has been satisfied by the following evidence:

* Cloned simian immunodeficiency virus (SIV) causes an AIDS-like disease within a year in macaques. Characteristics of the disease are low CD4+ T4 cell count and opportunistic infections such as pneumocystis pneumonia.

* HIV2, which is closely related to HIV1 and cause AIDS in western Africa, can cause AIDS in some moneys such as baboons. Again specific CD4+ cell loss was observed.

* The best evidence comes from a laboratory accident that occurred in the late 1980's. Three laboratory workers who worked with the virus became infected with purified cloned HIV1. After 5 to 7 years, all three had low CD4+ T4 cell counts and one had developed pneumocystis pneumonia and died. They were serologically positive for HIV. The HIV from all three patients was sequenced and found to be the same as the virus with which they appeared to be infected. One got the virus by a puncture wound when handling a centrifuge used for HIV concentration, one through mucous membrane and facial exposure and the other had direct contact with the virus though the actual route of infection was not known.

None of the three had lifestyles that would predict the possibility of AIDS. The report of the accident was published in 1993 and so the infections clearly occurred several years before that. The laboratory worker who developed pneumocystis pneumonia had not received AZT (which Duesberg has implicated as a possible cause of AIDS).

Thus, all three exposed patients had severe immunodeficiency (as a result of specific CD4 cell loss) after being infected with HIV. In 1994, Jon Cohen (Science vol 266, p 1647) asked Duesberg about his position on HIV as a result of the reports of the three lab workers. Duesberg did not agree that Koch's postulates had been satisfied. He pointed out that as of December 1994, 2 of the 3 lab workers did not have opportunistic infections but did not address the one person who did.

With regard to Koch's postulates, Duesberg has argued that the following criteria must be met to show that HIV causes AIDS:

1. The microorganism must be found in all cases of the disease.
2. It must be isolated from the host and grown in pure culture.
3. It must reproduce the original disease when introduced into a susceptible host.
4. It must be found in the experimental host so infected.


It is now apparent that:

1. Virtually all AIDS patients are HIV-infected.
2. HIV can be isolated from virtually all AIDS patients, as well as in almost all seropositive individuals with both early- and late-stage disease.
3. Laboratory workers accidentally infected with concentrated purified HIV have developed AIDS.
4. HIV has been isolated from these individuals.

It should also be noted that:

* HIV has always preceded AIDS in a population.

* HIV is the single common factor between AIDS sufferers who are gay San Franciscans, African female heterosexuals, hemophiliacs, children, intravenous drug users.

* Within any risk group only the HIV+ individuals get AIDS. It could be argued that all members of these groups are subject to immunosuppression but this is not the case with wives of hemophiliacs.

* There is a better correlation between HIV and AIDS than between cigarettes and lung cancer.


Summary of the abundant evidence that HIV is the causative agent of AIDS:

1. Before the appearance of HIV, AIDS-like syndromes were rare, today they are common in HIV-infected people.

2. AIDS and HIV are invariably linked in time, place and population group.

3. The main risk factors for AIDS are sexual contact, transfusions, IV drugs, hemophilia. These have existed for years but only after the appearance of HIV, has AIDS been observed in these populations.

4. Infection by HIV is the ONLY factor that predicts that a person will develop AIDS.

5. Numerous serosurveys show that AIDS is common in populations with anti-HIV antibodies but is rare in populations with a low seroprevalence of anti-HIV antibodies.

6. Cohort studies show that severe immunosuppression and AIDS-defining illnesses occur exclusively in individuals that are HIV-infected.

7. Persistently low CD4+ T4 cell counts are extraordinarily rare in the absence of HIV or another known cause of immunosuppression.

8. Nearly everyone with AIDS has anti-HIV antibodies.

9. HIV can be detected in nearly everyone with AIDS.

10. HIV does fulfill Koch's postulates.

11. New-born infants with no behavioral risks develop AIDS if infected as a result of the mother being HIV-infected.

12. An HIV-infected twin will develop AIDS, while the uninfected twin will not.

13. Since the appearance of HIV, mortality has increased dramatically among hemophiliacs.

14. Studies of transfusion-acquired AIDS has repeatedly led to discovery of HIV in recipient as well as donor.

15. Sex partners of HIV-infected hemophiliacs and transfusion patients acquire the virus and AIDS without other risk factors.

16. HIV infects and kills CD4+ T cells in vitro and in vivo.

17. HIV damages CD4 precursor cells.

18. Body viral (HIV) load correlates with progression to AIDS.

19. HIV is similar in its genome and morphology to other lentiviruses that often cause immunodeficiency, slow wasting disorders, neurodegeneration and death.

20. Baboons develop AIDS after inoculation with HIV2 that also causes AIDS in humans.

21. Asian monkeys develop an AIDS-like disase after inoculation with simian immunodeficiency virus.


Clearly, the correlations between HIV and AIDS are very striking indeed.



Post 35

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:37pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

Have you ever heard of any scientists anywhere who took the HIV virus out of an AIDS patient, gave it to susceptible hosts (in order to give them AIDS), and then re-isolated the HIV virus from the new AIDS-afflicted hosts?

I'm really very curious to see if these 3 simple steps have ever been done (and what the results were).

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 3/29, 4:44pm)


Post 36

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 4:46pmSanction this postReply
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Bill,

=========
Baboons develop AIDS after inoculation with HIV2 that also causes AIDS in humans.
=========

Did this HIV2 come from a human AIDS patient? Was HIV2 re-isolated from the baboons?

Ed

Post 37

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 5:02pmSanction this postReply
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Curious finding ...

Publishings on baboons (Papio cynocephalus) and HIV-AIDS stopped in February 2005.

In over a decade of literature research, I've never seen that happen before (where folks just stopped studying something this important).

Ed

Post 38

Saturday, March 29, 2008 - 7:34pmSanction this postReply
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None of Koch's postulates have been fullfilled by the HIV-infectious AIDS story. Although I'll briefly highlight evidence proving Duesberg's assertion, Robert Gallo's dismissal of the validity of Koch's postulates, cited in post 26, ought to be a clear indication that Gallo and other HIV promoters preferred to bypass Koch's test.

Postulate One: The microbe must be found in all cases of the disease. Koch explicitly stated that the causal germ would be found in high concentrations in the patient and distributed in the diseaseed tissues in a way that would explain the progression of the disease. But no trace of the virus can be found in lesions of Kaposi's sarcoma and brain neurons in dementia, both associated with AIDS. The absence of virions in sarcoma lesions--long synonymous with AIDS--is a serious problem. In all classic viral diseases, scientists can easily detect abundant quantities of virions throughout the bloodstream. For example, in a patient with Hepatitus, one milliliter of blood yields ten million free virions. Flue symptons only occur in the presence of at least one millionrhinovirus particles per milliliter of mucous, and one to one hundred billion particles of rotavirus per gram of feces accompanies diarrhea.

However, in most individuals suffering AIDS, no virus particles can be found anywhere. The remaining few have at most a few hundred or a few thousand infectious units per millilitwer of blood.  Duesberg cites a published paper in 1993 that cited one patient out of dozens examined who hosted one hundred thousand virions per milliliter of blood. All of this is consistent, not with HIV as causative agent of AIDS, but as a long dormant virus that sometimes acquires new life as the immune system is decimated by AIDS.  Even patients hosting detectable virus never have more than one in every ten thousand T cells actively reproducing the virus; dormant virus can be found, on average, in only one in five hundred T cells. In summary, all AIDS patients have an abundance of uninfected T cells, thereby refuting specious claims of high viral loads in patients, as is always the case in viral diseases. Viruses against which immunity fails infect all suseptable cells, not one in ten thousand. The abundance of uninfected T cells is evidence that there is no active virus to infect those cells. 

If a virus could cause disease while dormant (having been effectively neutralized by the immune system), then carriers of Epstein Barr and Cytomegalic virus, encompassing half the population, would be constantly sick. Of course, those viruses go into latency, with no active effect unless the immune system gets depressed, permitting their arousal.

Since AIDS patients (defined as immo-suppressed people who test positive for HIV) get sick years after HIV infection has been neutralized by the immune system, doctors are forced to establish the presence of HIV remains, either by detecting anti-bodies, or by detecting dormant viral particles. And, as I have emphasized in earlier posts---and this fact is not about to go away--thousands of AIDS patients never contracted HIV. Moreover, AIDS tests are notorious for producing false positive results.

From several vantage points, then, HIV fails Koch's First Postulate.

Postulate Two: The microbe must be isolated from the host and grown in pure culture.  This rule is designed to establish that a disease is caused by a particular germ, rather than by some unknown mix of non-infectuous subtances. Since HIV is grown and cultivated in culture, this postulate has been technically fullfilled.

However, there are problems. Since HIV is latent in the great majority of AIDS patients, HIV can only be extracted from the sick by reactivating the latent virus. Millions of white blood cells are taken from the patient and patiently nurtured in culture dishes for weeks on end, sometimes stimulated with chemical shock treatment designed to awaken the latent virus. Eventually, with enough time and repirtition, a single active virion can be isolated, at which time it begins infecting remaining cells in the culture. But even this highly artificial method does not often yield active virus from patients who test postive for HIV antibodies.

This is consistent with studies that have shown why sex between women who are negative with men who are positive, such as hemophiliacs, require an average of one thousand sexual exchanges (!) after the virus has been neutralized by the immune response.  In contrast, transmission from mother to fetus is much more efficient, producing a postive offspring 50% of the time.  The very low transmission possible through sexual intercourse of HIV explains why the virus has maintained at a constant percentage of the population, passing  mostly from mother to offspring.  Of course, HIV can be transmitted through blood sharing, among the most active homosexuals and IV drug needle sharers. So, those with the highest risk of illness from drug abuse also happen to be those most likely to contract HIV.

The most sensitive HIV assay is the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR), invented by Kerry Mullis who received the Nobel prize in Chemistry in 1993 for his discovery. The test is so sensitive that it amplifies even the tiniest amount of any specific DNA sequence, making enouigh copies for detection and analysis. But, contrary to claims asserted by HIV scientists, this is not an isolation of the actual virus, and doesn't fullfill Koch's Second Postulate. It is only the detection of viral fossils, long dormant. But PCR is the only means possible by which scientists can isolate HIV in most AIDS patients.

Clearly, the second postulate has not been fullfilled in a meaningful sense, just as it would not be fullfilled if scientists discovered the ability to build virions from nano-techonolgy for purposes of replication in a culture.

Postulate Three: The microbe must reproduce the original disease when introduced into a suceptible host.

Of all viral diseases, only the odd HIV to AIDS hypothesis posits a death sentence for individuals who carry anti-bodies to the virus. In all other cases, the emergence of anti-bodies is evidence that the immune response defeated the viral invader. Only those with weakened immune systems succumb to viral illnesses.  Any viral illness that killed all its hosts would soon disappear from existence as a suicidal organism. HIV, being extremely difficult to transmit sexually (on average, 250,000 sexual encounters for heterosexuals), would have an even tougher existence, rapdily dying with its hosts.

The incubation period for other viruses range from 2 days to six weeks, during which viral reproduction rises exponentially. Tests show that the incubation time for HIV is 48 hours. If the immune response failed to mount an overwhelming counter attack, viral production would produce a huge number in a couple of weeks. Within weeks, deterioration from AIDS would set in, according to classic principles of viral pathology. But the offically sanctioned latency period for HIV now approaches twenty years! This is an absurdity wholely incongruent with everything known about the pathology of viral disease. The notion of a twenty year latency is an unproven claim, at odds with basic principles.

This strange and unaccountable period of unproven latency is employed for the purpose of evading Koch's Third Postulate, because injecting HIV into animals produces no cases of immune destruction. Any germ that does not produce the disease at issue before the immune system mounts an effective response is ruled out by Koch's Third.

Blood injected into Chimps in 1983 produced no results by 1996, although these animals do suffer from other human viral diseases when injected, such as hepatitus, polio and flu.  Experimets cited in posts by Ed and Bill pertaining to monkeys may have merit, but frankly, I doubt that. Tracking down the unmentioned factors that pass unnoticed in most such presentations is time consuming and not possible. But over a ten year period, from 1982 through 1992, in which 5 million health workers tended 400,000 AIDS patients, Diesberg emphasized that there was not a single documented case of health care workers contracting infectious AIDS from AIDS patients. Imagine the apparent absurdity of similar results if the infectious disease were Measles or Hepatitus.  Of the health care workers who do get sick from AIDS, the predictable risk factors come into play, including the never-mentioned, never-questioned risk of immune destruction from administering AZT to HIV positives!

When HIV is grown in a culture of T cells, it refuses to kill the cells. In fact, Robert Gallo, leading AIDS promoter, has continually produced HIV in immortal T cell cultures as the means of establishing the patent on the virus since 1984. This, of course, is by itself a compelling refutation of the HIV-hypothesis.

Still another problem that is fatal to the HIV-AIDS hypothesis under Postulate Three relates to several diseases listed by the Center for Disease Control as AIDS-identifiers, comprising mroe than 20% of the listed diseases under the AIDS umbrella. These problematic (for the hypothesis) diseases include Karposi's scarcoma, which is skin cancer; cervical cancer; the lymphomas, which are cancers; dementia and wasting syndrome. None of these diseases are produced by immune deficiency, as opportunistic infections. The immune system doesn't ward off cancers, for example, because they are part of the body's physiology.  Why is this an insurmountable logical problem for HIV-AIDS? To cause these specific illnesses, the retro-virus HIV must perform the impossible: destroy brain neurons that it has been shown in experiments to be incapable of destroying, induce white blood cells to grow malignantly in the case of the lymphomas, and induce the malignant uncontrolled reproduction of tumerous skin lesions. All at the same time it allegedly destroys T cells.

What a miracle!

(My comments above are paraphrased from Chapter Six of Peter Duesberg's book Inventing the AIDS Virus. Kerry Mullis, who won the 1992 Nobel prize in chemistry for discovering the Polymerase Chain Reaction technology used by fervent HIV promoters, and who thinks the hypothesis is bullshit, wrote the introduction.)
(Edited by Mark Humphrey on 3/29, 7:45pm)

(Edited by Mark Humphrey on 3/29, 7:50pm)


Post 39

Sunday, March 30, 2008 - 2:40pmSanction this postReply
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Here is a link to an article by Donald Miller, a cardiac surgeon and professor of cardiac surgery, highlighting powerful arguments refuting the HIV/AIDS hypothesis made by Peter Duesberg, famous retro-virologist and member of the National Academy of Sciences. http://www.lewrockwell.com/miller/miller18.html

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